Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde - training frustrations

GreatWhite · Aug 31, 2016

ok so a few things I need a little advice/tips/tricks/words of encouragement on:

NUMBER ONE:

Last night was THE hardest night I have ever had crate training in my life.

(For reference: Truman is 5 1/2 months old, I have had him for just over a month, he is mostly potty trained, sleeps through the entire night without an accident or waking up to go potty. We are still in the middle of crate training, he is only ever crated for maybe 3 hours at a time since he gets to come to work with me every day. usually when is is crated, he will give a pretty mild whiny protest and then settle in for a nap.)

Truman usually sleeps with us on our bed at night, last night he just wouldn't settle in, he kept running back and forth across the bed, pacing, trying to play ect.

I tried taking him out to potty a few times, he didn't want to go potty, just kept wanting to play. I think he was just too wound up as he had recently had a pretty hefty play session with one of our larger dogs. After about an hour of trying to get him calm I was at the end of my rope.

So I decided maybe being in the crate for the night was probably the best option. I wouldn't have to worry about him flopping off the bed or waking us up by running over our faces all night long.

I put him in the crate, just as I have dozens of times, and he did his usual quiet wining, and I fell asleep.

I woke up a little while later to Frenchie feet running across my face (which I don't recommend). Come to find out my husband LET HIM OUT! He said it was because he was whining too much and he couldn't sleep. I was pretty po'd to say the least. Because Truman just received positive reinforcement for negative behavior I wasn't really sure what the right course of action was? Put him back in the crate? Let him try to settle on the bed? IDK?

It was my husbands fault, so I didn't want to punish Truman. I gave him another chance to try to settle in the bed again. He just would. not. settle. down. So back in the crate he goes.

The second that crate door closed the incessant screeching started. And it lasted....ALL. NIGHT. LONG.

I tried moving his crate into the bedroom, I tried covering it with a blanket, partially covering it, making it so he could see us, making it so he couldn't see us.
I tried absolutely every single variation I could think of at 2AM. Eventually it got so out of hand I had to move him all the way to the front of the house, to the furthest point from our bedroom, close all the doors in between, and turn the fan on high to drown him out. It was awful. I have never in my life had a dog throw that big/long of a fit in the crate, ESPECIALLY after doing so well up to this point.

I am pretty sure that it was my husband sneaking him out of the crate that caused this tantrum. I won't be too hard on the guy he doesn't really *get* dog training, I honestly don't think he realized the amount of training he reversed by taking him out. Regardless we will be having a long conversation about dog training when I get home from work. We really need to be on the same page from here on out.

NUMBER TWO:

Truman is teething pretty hard right now combined with being a curious puppy, he puts EVERYTHING in his mouth.

He ate a small chunk of wood a few weeks ago that upset his stomach enough for him to regurgitate it. I have been watching him chew on sticks Ect. and I hadn't once seen him actually "consume" any of it, so I wasn't sure why all of a sudden he decided to start swallowing things. Ever since that instance I have been hyper vigilant when we are playing or going potty that anything he is chewing on off the ground I either pick it up or remove it from his mouth and toss it in the garbage. I have basically spent every moment outside with him, telling him "NO" every time he picks something up off the ground, telling him to "leave it", or chasing after him and picking junk out of his mouth.

All that being said, I'm afraid I have created a monster.

I feel like he thinks it's a game, he has started to pick things up and take off immediately. All the while looking over his shoulder like "come get me sucker"! Unfortunately I can't just let him consume everything he gets his mouth on so I don't really know what to do other than continue to try to get it out before he swallows it.

I'm entirely aware that I have created this behavior, although completely by accident.

In my attempts to undo the "game" I created:
I have tried to distract him by using a squeaky toy every time he is trying to pick stuff up off the ground, to get his attention. All that basically does is distract him from going potty.
I've tried redirecting with a chew toy by sticking it in front of him or in his mouth when trying to eat something he shouldn't, this hasn't been very effective either.
I'm working with him on his recall and "leave It" commands to help.

I'm hoping someone has some advice or tips on how to redirect the behavior, turn it into a different kind of game, distract him from "snacks" off the ground?

EUREKA!

As I was typing this I think I realized what I need to do, although I am going to post it anyway in case you guys have some other great ideas!

The one thing I haven't done is putting him on a leash when we are outside, that way I can easily pull him away from junk on the ground & get it out of his mouth without participating in the chasing "game".

I am going to try this and post an update

:hissy:

MunasG · Aug 31, 2016

GreatWhite said:
ok so a few things I need a little advice/tips/tricks/words of encouragement on:

NUMBER ONE:

Last night was THE hardest night I have ever had crate training in my life.

(For reference: Truman is 5 1/2 months old, I have had him for just over a month, he is mostly potty trained, sleeps through the entire night without an accident or waking up to go potty. We are still in the middle of crate training, he is only ever crated for maybe 3 hours at a time since he gets to come to work with me every day. usually when is is crated, he will give a pretty mild whiny protest and then settle in for a nap.)

Truman usually sleeps with us on our bed at night, last night he just wouldn't settle in, he kept running back and forth across the bed, pacing, trying to play ect.

I tried taking him out to potty a few times, he didn't want to go potty, just kept wanting to play. I think he was just too wound up as he had recently had a pretty hefty play session with one of our larger dogs. After about an hour of trying to get him calm I was at the end of my rope.

So I decided maybe being in the crate for the night was probably the best option. I wouldn't have to worry about him flopping off the bed or waking us up by running over our faces all night long.

I put him in the crate, just as I have dozens of times, and he did his usual quiet wining, and I fell asleep.

I woke up a little while later to Frenchie feet running across my face (which I don't recommend). Come to find out my husband LET HIM OUT! He said it was because he was whining too much and he couldn't sleep. I was pretty po'd to say the least. Because Truman just received positive reinforcement for negative behavior I wasn't really sure what the right course of action was? Put him back in the crate? Let him try to settle on the bed? IDK?

It was my husbands fault, so I didn't want to punish Truman. I gave him another chance to try to settle in the bed again. He just would. not. settle. down. So back in the crate he goes.

The second that crate door closed the incessant screeching started. And it lasted....ALL. NIGHT. LONG.

I tried moving his crate into the bedroom, I tried covering it with a blanket, partially covering it, making it so he could see us, making it so he couldn't see us.
I tried absolutely every single variation I could think of at 2AM. Eventually it got so out of hand I had to move him all the way to the front of the house, to the furthest point from our bedroom, close all the doors in between, and turn the fan on high to drown him out. It was awful. I have never in my life had a dog throw that big/long of a fit in the crate, ESPECIALLY after doing so well up to this point.

I am pretty sure that it was my husband sneaking him out of the crate that caused this tantrum. I won't be too hard on the guy he doesn't really *get* dog training, I honestly don't think he realized the amount of training he reversed by taking him out. Regardless we will be having a long conversation about dog training when I get home from work. We really need to be on the same page from here on out.

NUMBER TWO:

Truman is teething pretty hard right now combined with being a curious puppy, he puts EVERYTHING in his mouth.

He ate a small chunk of wood a few weeks ago that upset his stomach enough for him to regurgitate it. I have been watching him chew on sticks Ect. and I hadn't once seen him actually "consume" any of it, so I wasn't sure why all of a sudden he decided to start swallowing things. Ever since that instance I have been hyper vigilant when we are playing or going potty that anything he is chewing on off the ground I either pick it up or remove it from his mouth and toss it in the garbage. I have basically spent every moment outside with him, telling him "NO" every time he picks something up off the ground, telling him to "leave it", or chasing after him and picking junk out of his mouth.

All that being said, I'm afraid I have created a monster.

I feel like he thinks it's a game, he has started to pick things up and take off immediately. All the while looking over his shoulder like "come get me sucker"! Unfortunately I can't just let him consume everything he gets his mouth on so I don't really know what to do other than continue to try to get it out before he swallows it.

I'm entirely aware that I have created this behavior, although completely by accident.

In my attempts to undo the "game" I created:
I have tried to distract him by using a squeaky toy every time he is trying to pick stuff up off the ground, to get his attention. All that basically does is distract him from going potty.
I've tried redirecting with a chew toy by sticking it in front of him or in his mouth when trying to eat something he shouldn't, this hasn't been very effective either.
I'm working with him on his recall and "leave It" commands to help.

I'm hoping someone has some advice or tips on how to redirect the behavior, turn it into a different kind of game, distract him from "snacks" off the ground?

EUREKA!

As I was typing this I think I realized what I need to do, although I am going to post it anyway in case you guys have some other great ideas!

The one thing I haven't done is putting him on a leash when we are outside, that way I can easily pull him away from junk on the ground & get it out of his mouth without participating in the chasing "game".

I am going to try this and post an update

:hissy:

I was JUST going to say that to you! Leash on for potty. When I took Nellie for obedience training the trainer said not to let her off leash not even in the backyard especially not for potty. because if not she'll think the chasing thing is a game. Nellie is 6 months and I feel like I have to tug at her leash at least 10 times during potty break to redirect her attention. It works most of the time. I can't really comment on your crate training issues, I am officially the worst where that's concerned. Patience...you will need tons!

Jakeyjake · Aug 31, 2016

So this is what worked for us when my two were puppies. We put a crate inside of an xpen and left the door open. The pup gets used to the crate being a safe, happy place. Once they are potty trained, the door was closed. If you have to move the crate to the furthest part of the house to get some sleep then I would. Limit his freedom as well. The leash on will help a ton and he can't run away making you chase him. You can also work on a command such as "treat" when you want him to come to you.This works well with my dogs and the 6 mo. old lab/golden cross that I have when she starts to play too rough. It is a tough age, but will get better. Hang in there.

Cbrugs · Sep 1, 2016

Sorry, I have no advice on crate training as I completely failed. Jax would just whine and whine when he was in there and we always took him out. He started sleeping in the bed with us pretty early on but we've never had any issues. There have been a couple of times where he does not want to lay down but that is usually because he has too much energy and just needs to get the zoomies going to tire him out and then he goes right to sleep. When he is alone for an extended period of time, he gets confined to the kitchen.

And I know all about the chasing game because we created a monster as well. When he is feeling frisky he will grab things and run with them so that we chase them. And he also does it because he knows he is going to get a treat in order for him to drop whatever he has.

I guess I am of no help at all...hahaha.

GreatWhite · Sep 1, 2016

Cbrugs said:
Sorry, I have no advice on crate training as I completely failed. Jax would just whine and whine when he was in there and we always took him out. He started sleeping in the bed with us pretty early on but we've never had any issues. There have been a couple of times where he does not want to lay down but that is usually because he has too much energy and just needs to get the zoomies going to tire him out and then he goes right to sleep. When he is alone for an extended period of time, he gets confined to the kitchen.

And I know all about the chasing game because we created a monster as well. When he is feeling frisky he will grab things and run with them so that we chase them. And he also does it because he knows he is going to get a treat in order for him to drop whatever he has.

I guess I am of no help at all...hahaha.

I thought the same thing about maybe getting his zoomies out but he doesn't ever "get tired" he will just keep going, and going, and going. In fact there have been two occasions where I've had to crate him to get calm because he was soooo jacked that he threw up. I've read in a couple of areas that some frenchies don't really have an "off" button for play time. I've been trying to get down a solid schedule of no zoomies after 7:30 so he has time to calm down, which mostly consists of getting my husband to stop riling him up.

Thats funny that he is totally playing you for some extra treats. I have to say I have never had a dog more food motivated than this guy. He will do ANYTHING for a snack. It doesn't even matter what the snack is.

Thanks for all the tips everyone, I haven't had a puppy in 6-7 years so I think I forgot how hard it was lol!

2bullymama · Sep 2, 2016

Cheli at times gets 'antsy' at bedtime and I have just got him to learn 'enough' and he usually settles in.... it did take time, but I only use that command during bedtime and it eventually kicked in.

Crate training... your husband needs a smack in the back of the head.

GreatWhite · Sep 8, 2016

2bullymama said:
Cheli at times gets 'antsy' at bedtime and I have just got him to learn 'enough' and he usually settles in.... it did take time, but I only use that command during bedtime and it eventually kicked in.

Crate training... your husband needs a smack in the back of the head.

HE DOES NEED A SMACK IN THE HEAD! (although I refrained this time lol)

After this incident we went over some dog training parameters for Truman, I think we are on the same page now. We haven't had another kennel issue like this since that night.

GreatWhite · Sep 8, 2016

UPDATE!

Firstly, the leash idea while outside worked like a charm!

Also we doubled down on our "drop it" que: as long as I don't physically follow him & try to get it out of his mouth he will drop it fairly quickly when I ask. I think we've got this down.

We've gotten to the point that I can have him off leash now and just tell him to "drop it" when he picks something up. Eventually I'm hoping he will just give up on picking stuff up from the ground all together.

ray:

In addition to this I used our shop vac to suck up all of the stray wood chips I could detect. I know vacuuming grass sounds insane, my neighbors probably thought so too, but i'd rather the neighbors think i'm off my rocker than have the possibility of a blockage in my pup later on.

Secondly, we haven't had a crate issue since that night. Had a chat with the husband about rewarding bad behavior, he genuinely didn't realize what he was doing. BUT we are on the same page now & he knows we ONLY let him out when he has calm, quiet behavior, he has to sit before we open the door and wait until we say "ok" to come out. Husband is getting it down after I made him read the sticky on NILIF :whew:

A couple of other things we are working on:

Trying to get him to let us know when he needs to potty. He is really really really quiet, it's extremely rare to hear a peep out of this guy. I don't know how to get him to use his body or voice to tell us when he needs to go out so I was going to try my hand at teaching him (and our other dogs) to touch a doorbell to go out and then another one when they want in. (they have one specifically for dogs that is weather proof for outside and one for inside).

Any advice on teaching a touch command or anyone using a similar method, I would love some input.

Thanks again everyone for all the tips and input!

2bullymama · Sep 8, 2016

FANTASTIC update!

Cheli and Lambeau are the same way -- no indication of when they have to go. We have a very strict schedule with them which eliminates a chance of accidents in the house

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GreatWhite · Sep 23, 2016

UPDATE:

Ok so, I decided to change his food since he was having kind of grainy, unprocessed food looking poops and........

VIOLA he's completely stopped eating crap off the ground!

I only did this as kind of "on the off chance" it might be causing some sort of issue, and it made a huge difference! He was being fed "Grandma Lucy's" Freeze dried raw alternative previous to the change over. Both of my other adult dogs have been on this for a few years now & they do quite well on it. It's a really high quality food with quality ingredients and a good balance of nutrients. I have no idea why it wasn't working for him but, I suppose it doesn't really matter now. We switched to Orijen puppy formula initially and have since added "natures Logic" nutritional booster as well as a tablespoon of plain yogurt and pumpkin into his morning meal. His poop has become consistent and doesn't look "unprocessed" anymore.

Still working on getting down some sort of system for him to let us know when he needs to go potty. Time hasn't allowed training to start on using the puppy doorbell but it came in the mail & we have plans to start this weekend