Going from playing to pissed off, instantly

[jellyfish]

Daisy, 6 month old Frenchie, female
Hank, 3 month old English bulldog, male

I had written another thread about these two and playing. I took everyone's advice and let them play a lot more. Things have been going pretty good, especially, house breaking and crate training.

As they've been allowed to play more, we been noticing the two of them playing one instant and the next they are about to kill each other. The escalation is very fast and it has been very hard for us to determine who is the instigator. This is happening about once a day or every other day. We have been successfully able to defuse the situation by pulling them apart (they typically are in their harnesses because of house breaking) until Friday when neither pup had a harness on and they started a fight and my husband tried to break them apart and got bit by Daisy. She did a number on his thumb but he will live. [emoji12] She wasn't trying to bite him, he just put his hand into a situation he never should have. He shouldn't have tried to use his bare hands but he did so he got bit.

Daisy has always acted like the dominant one. She humps him which I've read is a sign of dominance. The fights don't start while their playing with a toy, only when they are playing with each other.

Should the pups be escalating to fights like this? Why is this happening and is it normal? Is Hank trying to gain dominance? I'm sure theirs body language and other signs there, I just don't have the experience to read the situation.

We've warned our boys, never to intervene. They would never be home with the pups alone and out of their crates but I just want them to understand.

Does anyone have insight into this?



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[hannah]

Maybe a video would be helpful. But are they truly getting that bad where they are trying to kill one another? I know for me it took a while to get used to their play style. At first I thought it was too rough or bad but then I just got used to it. Things get heated sometimes but it's the way they play.. and it's nothing to be concerned about. A video might help though because it is hard to give advice when it's only explained in words

 

[jellyfish]

Maybe a video would be helpful. But are they truly getting that bad where they are trying to kill one another? I know for me it took a while to get used to their play style. At first I thought it was too rough or bad but then I just got used to it. Things get heated sometimes but it's the way they play.. and it's nothing to be concerned about. A video might help though because it is hard to give advice when it's only explained in words

OK. I'll try to catch it on video.

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[Jakeyjake]

Sounds like they are competing for the "leader" position in your home. Are you doing any obedience training with them? Working with a trainer will help you to better understand each dog's cues (head posture, ear position, etc.) Check out the Nothing in Life is Free philosophy also. I would discourage your female from mounting your male as well and correct her with a firm don't or no. My rule of thumb is to not allow any vocalization during play. It can escalate too quickly. When my daughter's Am Bulldog comes to visit, Jake loves to play with her but sometimes he starts to get a little growly and I immediately have to intervene.

 

[jellyfish]

Sounds like they are competing for the "leader" position in your home. Are you doing any obedience training with them? Working with a trainer will help you to better understand each dog's cues (head posture, ear position, etc.) Check out the Nothing in Life is Free philosophy also. I would discourage your female from mounting your male as well and correct her with a firm don't or no. My rule of thumb is to not allow any vocalization during play. It can escalate too quickly. When my daughter's Am Bulldog comes to visit, Jake loves to play with her but sometimes he starts to get a little growly and I immediately have to intervene.

Yes, we are doing obedience training with them. Daisy has done one class and Hank is currently in his first class. Both with start their second class (but in separate classes) in June.I try to work with them one on one daily. I will definitely check out that Nothing in Life is Free.

Does the discouraging of mounting go both ways? I haven't seen Hank mount Daisy yet but sometimes he'll throw his front paw over her neck like he's going to.

How do you teach no vocalization during play? They are both very vocal during play. I can understand what you're saying about it escalating quickly as it seems that is what is happening. Do you just correct or intervene when vocalization starts? Do you separate?

 

[2bullymama]

Yes, we are doing obedience training with them. Daisy has done one class and Hank is currently in his first class. Both with start their second class (but in separate classes) in June.I try to work with them one on one daily. I will definitely check out that Nothing in Life is Free.

Does the discouraging of mounting go both ways? I haven't seen Hank mount Daisy yet but sometimes he'll throw his front paw over her neck like he's going to.

How do you teach no vocalization during play? They are both very vocal during play. I can understand what you're saying about it escalating quickly as it seems that is what is happening. Do you just correct or intervene when vocalization starts? Do you separate?

yes, I always discourage any mounting by either pup. I normally just give a firm "OFF" and they will dismount almost instantly. It would be great if you can get a video as the body language is what we need to understand.... barking may not be an issue, but the type/sound of the 'growl' can be.

Our bulldog, Lambeau is coming into his terrible teens and we hear a difference in his growl so we know when to correct and when to let them be.... Cheli (Frenchie) is the dominate of the two and when he has had enough, Lambeau knows it without us having to stop anything. The training classes along with Nothing in life is free will totally help you learn a lot of this and the kids will fall into place within the pack as long as they know who is the leader.... which should be you.

 

[Jakeyjake]

Obedience training will take some time but you can't go wrong in the long run. When I don't like the vocalization coming from Jake I just separate and redirect his attention. Keep the play sessions short and always supervise. End the play on a good note and maybe give them a treat (after they sit). You don't want to create a habit of play always escalating and ending in chaos.