Head/Jaw development

LouisDad · Nov 16, 2020

Hi all. New French owner as of three day ago, and just signed up for the forum.

We got a little guy and he appears to have a extreme undershot jaw. Almost similar to the late Grumpy Cat. I know Frenchies are suppose to have underbites, but this doesnt seem normal. It appears that his lower teeth are well in front of the top ones. No teeth showing though. Will this even out as he gets older. Below are pictures of both parents, and his mom appeared to have a little bit of the same jaw.

He just hit 8 weeks old. He was only 4.5lbs (according to the scale at the pet store) so I think he is a little under sized.

Mom

Dad

Littermate

Jakeyjake · Nov 17, 2020

Louis is adorable and I'm sure he has won your heart over. Frenchies come in different sizes. My female matured to 20 lbs. and my male to 28 lbs.

LouisDad · Nov 17, 2020

Jakeyjake said:
Louis is adorable and I'm sure he has won your heart over. Frenchies come in different sizes. My female matured to 20 lbs. and my male to 28 lbs.

It hasn't even been a will and this little guy is a hit. He's awesome.

Just not sure what to expect with his lower jaw. I can't even find a picture of a frenchie online that looks similar to it.

2bullymama · Nov 18, 2020

Welcome to FBN. Your baby is adorable and seems to have found a great home.

in my opinion, he is a mix or has a mix breed in the bloodline, he seems to not have the square Frenchie head, and a longer snout than normal. Did you meet the parent or were picture just sent to you

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

2bullymama said:
Welcome to FBN. Your baby is adorable and seems to have found a great home.

in my opinion, he is a mix or has a mix breed in the bloodline, he seems to not have the square Frenchie head, and a longer snout than normal. Did you meet the parent or were picture just sent to you

Thanks for the reply.

Meet the mom.

I'm no professional, but in my opinion it seems that only the lower jaw is longer. The snot seems like what I'm use to seeing. His profile looks frenchie to me, but looking at him straight on, he doesn't.

I was also given this...

Im not familar with the registration numbers, the the only one I cant look up is the "Total Bomb" guy. He has a different kind of number.

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

2bullymama said:
Welcome to FBN. Your baby is adorable and seems to have found a great home.

in my opinion, he is a mix or has a mix breed in the bloodline, he seems to not have the square Frenchie head, and a longer snout than normal. Did you meet the parent or were picture just sent to you

Body and everything else seems frenchie, right? He is definitely not leggy.

See his profile picture below? He almost doesn't even look like the same dog from the side.

2bullymama · Nov 19, 2020

LouisDad said:
Body and everything else seems frenchie, right? He is definitely not leggy.

See his profile picture below? He almost doesn't even look like the same dog from the side.

View attachment 14275

View attachment 14276

He totally looks Frenchie in these photos.. [MENTION=4]davidh[/MENTION] -- inisight? David is a breeder/shower of Frenchies for many years and can give better info than I

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

2bullymama said:
He totally looks Frenchie in these photos.. [MENTION=4]davidh[/MENTION] -- inisight? David is a breeder/shower of Frenchies for many years and can give better info than I

Thanks, so much.

But, yeah. Agian, he almost looks like a completely different dog from his profile. That big jaw is just noticeable from the front, but I have not seen it before on any other frenchies.

I am worried about his jaw. We have his first vet appointment this weekend, so we will get him to check it out.

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

Here are his three littermates with him at the bottom...

Louis...

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

Here are some other pictures for reference:

LouisDad · Nov 19, 2020

Here is a picture of he teeth.

His teeth on the top and bottom are straight, but the bottom row of teeth extends well beyond the top.

davidh · Dec 1, 2020

[MENTION=4346]LouisDad[/MENTION] sorry I'm a little later. His head is too narrow at the jaw, and his nose is a little to long. The face profile should be pretty much straight. His dad (sire) is a black and tan, not a standard Frenchie, but a mix breed to get that color. His mom (dam) looks to have blue and maybe Merle in her, another mix. These colors are not natural to the breed. Not knocking your pup, but not bred by a reputable breeder. They breed for money only and not for health or the betterment of the breed. He is a cute little bugger, and should make a good pet. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's the facts. Go to French Bull Dog Club of America to see the Frenchie standards.

LouisDad · Dec 3, 2020

davidh said:
[MENTION=4346]LouisDad[/MENTION] sorry I'm a little later. His head is too narrow at the jaw, and his nose is a little to long. The face profile should be pretty much straight. His dad (sire) is a black and tan, not a standard Frenchie, but a mix breed to get that color. His mom (dam) looks to have blue and maybe Merle in her, another mix. These colors are not natural to the breed. Not knocking your pup, but not bred by a reputable breeder. They breed for money only and not for health or the betterment of the breed. He is a cute little bugger, and should make a good pet. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's the facts. Go to French Bull Dog Club of America to see the Frenchie standards.

Thanks a lot for the reply david.

And yes he's definitely no show dog, and we are not show people. I am aware of standard versus non-standard colors and I know gray is not standard. although, you do see a lot.

His brother is completely gray, but Louis appears to be the only one in the litter with this mouth. It seems like a feature that is individual to him. I'm more or less concerned about his health overall, and if anybody is familiar with this type of mouth.

He seems normal and healthy, and the vet said he was. Just wondering what the future might hold.

he's also filled out a good bit in the past three weeks. I'm pretty sure he's doubled in weight. So his face is still changing.

I'll have to post some update pics later.

LouisDad · Dec 4, 2020

Updated pics. I think the little dude has gone from about 4lbs to 9lbs in 3 weeks.

Carson1834 · Dec 5, 2020

LouisDad said:
Thanks a lot for the reply david.

And yes he's definitely no show dog, and we are not show people. I am aware of standard versus non-standard colors and I know gray is not standard. although, you do see a lot.

His brother is completely gray, but Louis appears to be the only one in the litter with this mouth. It seems like a feature that is individual to him. I'm more or less concerned about his health overall, and if anybody is familiar with this type of mouth.

He seems normal and healthy, and the vet said he was. Just wondering what the future might hold.

he's also filled out a good bit in the past three weeks. I'm pretty sure he's doubled in weight. So his face is still changing.

I'll have to post some update pics later.

My Frenchie’s parents are both titled show dogs. I am not a show dog person. Getting a show dog quality pup has nothing to do with whether you’re into dog shows or not. The breeders who show their dogs clearly care about conformity, breed standards, health, temperament and bettering their lines and the breed overall.

Non standard colors isn’t just a dq in dog shows. They also tend to have more health issues and are clearly bred by breeders who don’t care about the breed, just their pocketbooks. IMO it’s not a looks issue moreso as an ethical one. Read up on the French bulldog rescue group who are getting tons of these unhealthy pups because their owners don’t want to/can no longer afford to care for them. So sad.

French Bulldog Rescue Network :: Fad Colors

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LouisDad · Dec 6, 2020

He's definitely filling out.

2bullymama · Dec 6, 2020

LouisDad said:
He's definitely filling out.

View attachment 14315

so cute

davidh · Dec 7, 2020

[MENTION=4346]LouisDad[/MENTION] he is filling out some and is a cute little guy. The mouth should not cause him any problems, nor will the longer nose. Keep sending pics of him. We love watching them grow.

LouisDad · Dec 8, 2020

Carson1834 said:
My Frenchie’s parents are both titled show dogs. I am not a show dog person. Getting a show dog quality pup has nothing to do with whether you’re into dog shows or not. The breeders who show their dogs clearly care about conformity, breed standards, health, temperament and bettering their lines and the breed overall.

Non standard colors isn’t just a dq in dog shows. They also tend to have more health issues and are clearly bred by breeders who don’t care about the breed, just their pocketbooks. IMO it’s not a looks issue moreso as an ethical one. Read up on the French bulldog rescue group who are getting tons of these unhealthy pups because their owners don’t want to/can no longer afford to care for them. So sad.

French Bulldog Rescue Network :: Fad Colors

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the point you are making gets lost in the fact that these other colors are so common. The first bag of puppy food we bought had a picture of a blue fawn on the bag. Many articles on frenchie health, or owning frenchies, use them as pictures in their articles. Gray/blue frenchies can be seen in many places in the "pet industry".

With that said, I know what you are getting at. Our last dog was a Doberman. There are albino Dobermans, which is not a standard color. Its not just a non-standard color it's a genetic defect, and I would never get one. The difference here is that fad frenchie colors are not in themselves defects, they are just more prone to certain things. Also albino Dobermans are just not common. You don't see the "non-standard" color put out there in the same way that you do with the frenchie.

And there are always people out there just trying to make money which even applies to people selling standard colors so I don't care to use that as a measuring stick

LouisDad · Dec 8, 2020

davidh said:
[MENTION=4346]LouisDad[/MENTION] he is filling out some and is a cute little guy. The mouth should not cause him any problems, nor will the longer nose. Keep sending pics of him. We love watching them grow.

Thanks for your insight. Again, I plan to keep this thread updated to help anyone else in the future that may have a similar situation.