Can't decide what food to switch into? (Help me make decision please!)

[ertha]

Hi all frenchie owners here and greeting from Thailand!

I just adopted french bulldog puppy into my house, she seems to be very healthy and lively, and loves to chew on everything and easily get bored from the most toys as well

However now i'm concerning about her diet, firstly she's very picky, most of the time she would jumping and running instead of focusing on the food (that is right in front of her) And most of the owner also claim that eating BARF or home made food will also make her healthier.

So i think that by switching from Royal Canine kibble to something more appealing like "BARFs" or "Homemade" food would positively result in both aspect "it would be more delicious as well as more healthy?"

I don't really have problem with a budget, the food would not be very costly in Thailand, so i can expect to pay at only $30-40 for her food monthly. However, I'm studying and most of the time have to travel back and forth between university and home, so it might not be possible to prepare her food on a daily basis.

Thus I've done some research on food for FBD (in this forum too) and it seems that i don't have an access to those kibble mentioned in this forum as well as the BARFs provider as well.

However, i have looked for some sellers that i can easily purchase the dog food from them, this way would be most practical way for me since i can order these food on a daily basis or maybe weekly.

There are two shops in my consideration, i really need help to make the decision on this, which store will i choose.

1.) First one offers "cooked homemade food" - Their menus are basics but possibly healthy, they are finely grounded the ingredient into whole thus give no rough or bone texture at all, then they cook the food to fully welldone .

What the store recommended to me are the "steamed chicken and pumpkin with the ratio of 5 chicken to 1 pumpkin," and the other menu was "beef and bone at the ratio of 1:1 (50/50 so i'm not sure about the "too much bone?" or not.

What i concern for this store is about ratio and ingredient, what i've seen about good BARFs is that they offer organs and some veggies as well, thus this shop may not meet the standard? however they claim that they've added some calcium and vitamin to their food.

2.) The second one is quite famous on BARFs (actually there might be only 1-2 BARFs provider here in Thailand.), on their main page they've provided the component of their food

55% meaty bone - like the bone with meat such as rib from beef,chicken, and even fish bone.
30% meat - source of protien with some minimal organs (didn't tell how many percent organ)
10% veggies and fruit
5% extra ingredient like seaweed yoghurt, egg, salmon oil, yeast, etc.

้here is the image posted on shop's page, the main ingredients are beef organs, salmon meat, and fish bone.

 

[2bullymama]

[MENTION=914]maple[/MENTION]smommy

 

[bullmama]

I am not a raw feeder but option 2 looks really excellent to me. Certainly wait for more responses though BC we have a nice group of raw feeders here. Good luck!


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[MaplesMommy]

Great that you are looking into what you're feeding

Both ideas (home cooked and barf) are great & healthy,but I do like it raw better. Cooking does destroy some of the nutrients and amino acids, unless the dog has a severly compromised immune system (cancer etc) , there is no need to cook the food.

I do notice the high bone content in both menues.
The diet should consist of 80% muscle meat,10% organ & 10% bone. And then you can add vegetables,herbs etc.
Even if they are meaty bones, 55% of the batch seem way too much. If you feed too much bone you are throwing the calcium- phosphorus ratio out of balance, and you dont want to do that; especially not with a growing puppy.

I would maybe contact both suppliers and ask them how much muscle meat,bone and organ they are using exactly. For example ask them how much meat,bone,organ goes into 1 lbs of their dog food.

If you dont like what they do,then you could potentially do it yourself, if you have access to organ meat & bones. The bones can be substituted for a calcium replacment, if you cant get any or if your pup is a gulper & you cant find ground up bone.

You could add your meat,bone and veggies together,make a huge batch & then portion it & put it in ziplocs and then freeze it & take out your daily ratio.

 

[ertha]

Thank you so much everyone! Really appreciate the help.

[MENTION=377]MaplesMommy[/MENTION]

For the 1st shop i think it depends on the menu, if the menu contains bones he usually state directly in the name of it for example : beef broth + beef (1:1 ratio added calcium), but the menu like chicken and pumpkin it's more expensive as it contains hundred percent chicken meat and veggie without bony parts.

But the bone and organ part is very essential right?

One more thing, in case that i'm going to cook out for her myself >

1.) How large the batch can be? (lbs/kgs) My expectation would be that to maximize the size of the batch, but doesn't want to sacrifice the freshness very much, something equilibrium.
2.) What's the maximum day that it will stay fresh or okay to eat, or what's the proper amount of time to keep it like can it be 2 weeks? or maximum only 1 week per batch?
3.) How to store it properly to maintain freshness? (like how cold? frozen stage?)
4.) How to defroze the food, i used to defroze frozen fishs, it become very wet and too moise too eat.
5.) I don't have grinder or blender, that means i can't cook bone for this little puppy right?

and what's the basic ratio for the food, however i think i'm gonna cook it a bit feeding raw is not yet ready for me hahaha, would that be okay?

 

[MaplesMommy]

Sorry for the delayed answer.
Yes,bones & organs are crucial in a species appropriate diet. Bones supply mostly calcium, and could potentially be swaped out with egg shells or other calcium sources.
Organ meat is full or essentials minerals,vitamins and amino acids.

I am a raw feeder and not too familiar with home cooking. However since cooking does destroy some of the nutrients/amino acids, I believe its important to add those lost things back into the diet with certain supplements,ingredients etc. But like I said,no expert on home cooking,so you're probably better of with those questions reading a few books on the subject.

How long you can keep the batch depends on the ingredients.
Cooked meat & veggies can stay in the fridge for Id say 4 days?! Since you will be using non pasteurized food, Id follow the common guidelines on how long to keep certain items in the fridge.
Or you can make a huge batch,portion it into daily ratios,put it in a ziploc or tupperware and freeze it. Frozen it should stay good for quite a while.
I believe my freezer is currently at -17 degrees.
I let Maples food defrost over night. I pull it out of the freezer,then put it into a metal bowl & let it sit in the fridge over night. Depending on what I thaw it sometimes is still rather cool in the morning in which case I let it sit on the counter for a few more minutes. This is just the meat/bone/organ. As for the vegg, I usually puree some every 4 days, fill it in a mason jar and keep it in the fridge and then add some vegg to every meal.

The daily ratio guideline is 2% -2.5% of their weight,but for a puppy its around 5% of their current weight or you can base it on their ideal adult weight using 2%. But those are just guidelines;it really depends on your dogs metabolism and energy consume.

 

[ertha]

Thanks you so much again! [MENTION=377]MaplesMommy[/MENTION] , however, i've made my final decision to go on "raw feeding," this would be my food ratio, i took it from a guide on Raw Fed Dogs - Natural Prey Model Rawfeeding Diet

80% meat, sinew, ligaments, fat
10% edible bone
5% liver
5% other organ meat

One question is that how should i prepare the food? May i grind the food a bit? (I'm not sure about this but i saw a lot of people in raw feeding group in my country use "chicken carcasse" it's cheapest but im not sure is it really good that much?)

Can you please check my sample meal so i can be sure that i'm gonna do it right?

For 1000 grams batch.

1.) Chicken Breast (or Beef, Duck breast, Heart Meat ) about 700 grams
2.) Chicken wing (i think this provide 50/50 for meat/bone?) about 200 grams, it should provide about 100 grams of edible bone?
3.) chicken or beef liver about 50 grams
4.) other organs about 50 grams (any suggestion?)

Few more question
1.) What can be considered as edible bone, in Thailand i would be able to get only product of "BEEF,CHICKEN, DUCK, PORK, and FROZEN RABBIT + FISH"
2.) How long you usually keep your "raw food" in the freezer? So i can know how large my batch can be, i expect it to be 1 week or 2 week.
3.) For bone, i don't really like the big one, can i roughly grind it? or can i use wing and neck forever since they are supposedly small and soft
4.) What to use for "other organs"
5.) Do i have to remove "chicken skin" ? i mean during the puppy as well as adult.

And lastly i'm going to introduce her to "raw food" by starting use the diced chicken breast as a treat during the day, then i would replace a meal with breast, then 2-3 weeks later i would start add some bones and organs?

 

[MaplesMommy]

Yes,your example looks good.
Raw meaty bones (edible bones with some meat on them) are chicken wings,chicken or turkey necks, or pretty much any bony parts of a chicken or turkey carcass. Lamb would be ok too. Bigger animals such as beef and venison have stronger/harder bones and are usually mainly used for recreational purposes.
Carcass is great because its almost a whole/balanced prey,just minus the organs (and head and feet etc), whole fish is also pretty 'wholesome'. But when you feed fish preferably look for Sardines or any small fish that doesnt swim in highly toxis/mercury loaded water. If you can only find other kinds of fish,at least remove the skin,as this is how most of the toxins are absorbed. (Thats why I hate fish skin treats...)
When you feed raw,you are trying to mimic the prey a wild dog would be eating. So in your head try to asemble the animal; this is a little more visual on what amount of meat,bone and organ to use.
I would remove the skin for now as it can be rather stretchy and hard to chew.
If you have a grinder you can certainly grind the food. Infact, most Frenchies tend to be gulpers so be careful when feeding bones. The food I feed is all grind up : meat,organ and bone. I occassionally give Maple a Chicken or Turkey neck,however I can only do so, while hanging on to one site of it and let her bite pieces off. Otherwise she would try to swallow the whole thing at once. When I give her recreational bones I feed her large bones,that are way too big for her to fully put in her mouth. That way she still has fun and cleans her teeth while knawing on it,but without the temptation to swallow the whole bone.
So yes, you can definitely grind up the bone or ask a butcher to do it for you. You can also grind up the meat & organs and mix it all together. I probably wouldnt keep the ground up mix in the fridge for more tham 2 days though. However,you could always portion it and then freeze it. In the freezer it should be good for 2-3 weeks. I know a lot of barf feeders that always prepare portions for one month at a time.

Other organs can be kidney or spleen. Or brain (probably wont be able to get this ).
But you are right,for now Id hold off with the organ meat, but you can certainly already give raw meaty bones. Its only the organ meat that is known to sometimes cause diarrhea if introduced too fast.

Another great thing to add if green tripe. Full of nutrients. Its awesome to give 1-2 x a week.
Also eggs are a great source of amino acids. Infact they are the only food on earth that contains ALL amino acids

Then you can add Spirulina,Wheat Grass, Coconut Oil etc for additional trace minerals etc.
If you don't feed fish,Id also add an Omega 3 Oil (fish oil), unless all your meat is grass fed. But Fish Oil is very beneficial for brain and eye development,so definitely recommended for puppies either way.

I hope I didnt miss any of your questions. Its getting late here & I am headed to bed

 

[ertha]

Thanks you so much, i'm much more comfortable to feed her variety of food now, won't stick to single or two combination. I've replace one meal per day with raw chicken breast now, seems okay and she loves it so much! Will try add some small piece of liver next week. Thanks for all the answer, i really appreciate them.