Hives, swollen eyes and thoughts on Apoquel and Cytopoint

Oliviathefrenchy · Aug 29, 2019

Hello there. I've been a passive reader on these boards for sometime and finally decided to log in and seek help. I see so many people share information and help provide guidance that I thought I would reach out and share my story. Olivia is 4.5 years and I've been managing her allergies since I rescued her. She goes in waves of her breakouts and I log every time she has some sort of reaction. It's historically been in the later winter/spring but she's currently battling a bad outbreak now. First time really in the summer like this. She's been on cytopoint but I am not sure I want to continue to put that in her system as it's not great over time. I had a gold VRAL test done and put together a diet based on the results. She's currently eating Primal venison raw food mixed with Honest Kitchen. I am trying to keep this brief and ask a few questions:

1. I took her to a dermatology clinic in Marina Del Rey hoping I would speak to someone knowledgeable with good ideas and suggestions. All they did was recommend another allergy test, apoquel and then the allergy therapy where I give her doses of what she's allergic to to help try to to build the immunity.
So, has anyone ever done that and seen success?
When they handed me a 1,500 bill without asking much about her history, I felt scammed and like I wasted my time because my own vet recommended doing that but I thought a specialist would do more digging and ask more questions. She also recommended giving her a hydrolyzed (spelling may be wrong) protein diet from Royal Canine and I was turned off by that suggestion as well.
Does anyone feed their dog that kind of specialized food? I feel like a raw diet is healthier than a dry food with lots of ingredients. Has a food elimination diet led to positive success?
Has anyone ever heard of filtered water curing allergies over tap water? I got that message from someone on instagram before.

2. Apoquel vs. Cytopoint. I know both drugs will work to help alleviate symptoms, but my dog isn't normally that bad. She does get itchy, but when I increased her bathing it seemed to be managed just by that. But, when she's on Cytopint, her skin overall always looks way better. I just read that long term effects may not be the best on their body. My vet brings up Apoquel whenever she has a bad breakout and the readings on that are also very mixed. Long term use can lead to lots of problems, but it's unanimously effective from what I read.
I am sort of a organic, less chemicals person the better so I apply that to my dog, but if the relief gives her a less infections, etc, than maybe the pills or shots is worth the possible negative side
effects? Does anyone else struggle with this or have insight into other alternatives?

I asked above if a food elimination diet led to positive success, because my vet will bring it up and i've read about people trying it here. If they are on these medications, how do you know if the food is
helping or the pills are just masking the symptoms?

Finally, does anyone else's frenchies break out as bad as mine? I always log when she gets these breakouts and remember if she had treats, went to the park, that sort of thing but it's near impossible to figure out what's actually causing these break outs. I again try to stay away from steroids because when this happens, she's never really itchy or seems bothered by it. Usually the vet gives a steroid shot and over a few days they go away, but again, trying to stay away from steroid use, even if it's infrequent. I've been battling this with benadryl and it works, just takes longer for them to go away permanently.

2bullymama · Aug 29, 2019

Welcome!

OH MY... she is really suffering.... sending lots of hugs and positive thoughts that we can help get her stable.

Food --- stay away from any of those prescription foods, they are garbage. Stay on the raw... do you have access to raw local honey? Have you tried feeding duck ? it is the best option usually when dealing with allergies. Are you giving a probiotic to keep her immnse system up?With such a horrible hive break out, she could have gotten bit/stung by a bug that cause the hives. My girl had this type of serious reaction twice, which we never knew why, but we did know she was highly allergic to chicken, house flies and certain bushes so we always ensured chicken was no where near her, house flies, not much we could do... and then after each trip outside, we would wipe her down with a cool wash cloth to be sure no pollen or brushing against something stayed on her.

Cyopoint is definitely the better option of the two... I believe that Cytopoiint is not a chemical, but made of antibodies .. my Bulldog is on them and does very well, no side effects or issues and he get a shot every 7-8 weeks, he is allergic to everything green and we also wipe his paws and face after he comes in from outside.

Apoquel and steroids just mask the problem and compromise the immune system

Cbrugs · Aug 29, 2019

OH MY GOODNESS!! Poor baby.

Jax will be 7 in April. Just before he turned 1, he started getting super itchy and would just scratch himself raw and until he bled. I went through so many different kibble brands and proteins to see if it was food related and nothing changed. I ended up taking him to the dermatologist and they did an intradermal skin test but only for environmental allergies as they will not test for food allergies because they said it was too unreliable and not accurate and that the only way to know if there is a food intolerance is to do an elimination diet. So the results showed Jax is allergic to basically everything green outside. I think that whole first visit was maybe just over $600 and that included the office visit, allergy test, first batch of allergy serum and first bottle of Apoquel. We did the allergy injections like you were suggested and he was put on Apoquel as that was what was out at the time. I stopped the allergy shots after about a year because I just didn't feel like they were doing anything. He was on Apoquel for a few years and it worked well for him. Then Cytopoint came out and I switched him to that and it has been amazing. He can go about 11-12 weeks between injections. Cytopoint is much safer than Apoquel. The only issue is that a dog can become immune to it so the longer you wait between injections, the better. Jax is also on a raw diet which has helped but he definitely needs the Cytopoint. In my case, if Cytopoint never came out, Jax would probably still be on the Apoquel because with nothing, he would just be a mess. He never broke out in hives though.

My 2 1/2 year old bulldog, however, just went through a bout of hives over a week and half span. Not as bad as your girl though. He gets kibble in the am and raw in the pm. So I had washed all of the blankets he used, cleaned the area rug in the living room, gave him a bath and played around with what he ate. He's been hive free the last couple of weeks so I still don't know the cause.

So in your instance, you have been logging when she breaks out...have you noticed any recurring pattern of when it happens and what she was eating/doing before the breakout? Have you tried giving her baths with a medicated shampoo? Have you tried different detergents or anything to see if it could be that? Have you used any new cleaning products? What other proteins have you tried?

Honeys Owners · Aug 29, 2019

Agree with everything that has been mentioned. I would just use frozen raw dog food, PREY model, not Honest Kitchen, and try duck protein to start, and later on try other proteins like rabbit or kangaroo. A high pressure processed product like Primal is probablly safer if she's on any immunosupressants, but not as likely to give her beneficial bacteria as a non processed product so use Primal if on apoquel. I would give her cetirizine 10mg daily ( stop before doing any allergy testing ) . I would definitely continue her on Cytopoint injections monthly during the spring summer and fall months, since there's very few side effects, and if she still was having problems, switch her to Apoquel even though it's not quite as safe as Cytopoint. Short term prednisone dosing is fine but longer term is a lot more toxic than Cytopoint., Definitely wipe her down on her underside and face and paws with an unscented baby wipe or wet wash cloth when coming in from outside. Try to wash her bedding with an unscented laundry detergent and stay with hypoallergenic cleaning products all over. Try to minimize vaccinations- rabies every 3 years if legally required and shouldn't need anything else. Probiotics such as live raw sauerkraut from refrigerator section of health food store, or commercial doggie probiotic such as Probiotic Miracle or Proviable DC.

davidh · Sep 1, 2019

Poor baby, she is miserable. Definitely needs around of Benedryl and Steroids to get that under control. We give Henri Cytopoint twice a year to help him, but he doesn't get as bad as your poor girl.

2bullymama · Sep 2, 2019

Oliviathefrenchy said:
Hello there. I've been a passive reader on these boards for sometime and finally decided to log in and seek help. I see so many people share information and help provide guidance that I thought I would reach out and share my story. Olivia is 4.5 years and I've been managing her allergies since I rescued her. She goes in waves of her breakouts and I log every time she has some sort of reaction. It's historically been in the later winter/spring but she's currently battling a bad outbreak now. First time really in the summer like this. She's been on cytopoint but I am not sure I want to continue to put that in her system as it's not great over time. I had a gold VRAL test done and put together a diet based on the results. She's currently eating Primal venison raw food mixed with Honest Kitchen. I am trying to keep this brief and ask a few questions:

1. I took her to a dermatology clinic in Marina Del Rey hoping I would speak to someone knowledgeable with good ideas and suggestions. All they did was recommend another allergy test, apoquel and then the allergy therapy where I give her doses of what she's allergic to to help try to to build the immunity.
So, has anyone ever done that and seen success?
When they handed me a 1,500 bill without asking much about her history, I felt scammed and like I wasted my time because my own vet recommended doing that but I thought a specialist would do more digging and ask more questions. She also recommended giving her a hydrolyzed (spelling may be wrong) protein diet from Royal Canine and I was turned off by that suggestion as well.
Does anyone feed their dog that kind of specialized food? I feel like a raw diet is healthier than a dry food with lots of ingredients. Has a food elimination diet led to positive success?
Has anyone ever heard of filtered water curing allergies over tap water? I got that message from someone on instagram before.

2. Apoquel vs. Cytopoint. I know both drugs will work to help alleviate symptoms, but my dog isn't normally that bad. She does get itchy, but when I increased her bathing it seemed to be managed just by that. But, when she's on Cytopint, her skin overall always looks way better. I just read that long term effects may not be the best on their body. My vet brings up Apoquel whenever she has a bad breakout and the readings on that are also very mixed. Long term use can lead to lots of problems, but it's unanimously effective from what I read.
I am sort of a organic, less chemicals person the better so I apply that to my dog, but if the relief gives her a less infections, etc, than maybe the pills or shots is worth the possible negative side
effects? Does anyone else struggle with this or have insight into other alternatives?

I asked above if a food elimination diet led to positive success, because my vet will bring it up and i've read about people trying it here. If they are on these medications, how do you know if the food is
helping or the pills are just masking the symptoms?

Finally, does anyone else's frenchies break out as bad as mine? I always log when she gets these breakouts and remember if she had treats, went to the park, that sort of thing but it's near impossible to figure out what's actually causing these break outs. I again try to stay away from steroids because when this happens, she's never really itchy or seems bothered by it. Usually the vet gives a steroid shot and over a few days they go away, but again, trying to stay away from steroid use, even if it's infrequent. I've been battling this with benadryl and it works, just takes longer for them to go away permanently.

View attachment 13381
View attachment 13382
View attachment 13383