Major disagreement with vet - what would you do?

FroxerMom · May 25, 2018

Hi there,
Going to apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I need to include a bit of backstory so you can appreciate how stunned and saddened I am after a vet visit today where my longtime vet of 12 years basically told me to take my pets somewhere else...he "refuses" to see them if I am going to feed them a raw diet.

Backstory:
When I first moved to NC twelve years ago, it was a priority for me to find a vet as good as the one I was coming from in another state. I went to a couple different ones and didn't get a great feeling until I went to see Dr. M. What I liked most about him was he cut to the chase, he said what he felt, was not always P.C., and also did not nickel and dime you. If he thought something would be a waste of money, he'd tell you and I saved a TON over the years.

Fast forward to the summer of 2015, when my 14 year old cat suddenly woke up a swollen shoulder blade. Long story short, he had chondrosarcoma and needed surgery to remove his scapula and right front leg. He had the surgery, then was rushed back a few days later when he started bleeding internally from a medication he was given (Onsior). My cat needed an emergency blood transfusion. My vet threw my cat in an oxygen chamber, grabbed a clinic cat and did the transfusion. My cat was literally headed towards the light, but my vet's quick actions saved his life. Dr. M even helped me get the makers of Onsior to pay some of my vet bills. My cat ended up beating cancer and living an additional 2.5 years. He passed last summer one night after a weekend of seizures.

Anyway, today I brought my new cat into the vet for her annual exam. He asked me about Daphne (he adores her) and I mentioned she was doing mostly great except for the interdigital furuncle I'm battling on one of her paws. I shared that I switched her to raw and he went BALLISTIC. Like, he went OFF on me. He said I was endangering my husband, my daughter, and all my pets because of salmonella, and e. coli concerns, etc...raw feeding is horrible, and he refuses to see any clients that feed raw because of the potential to contaminate his kennels with bacteria. He said OSHA would shut him down for three weeks if that ever happened. He then went on to tell me there is nothing wrong with Purina and other foods like Iams, Science Diet, and Royal Canin. He said again, if I wanted to continue this very dangerous behavior, I'd have to find some other "holistic" vet and he then classified them as "nutjobs."

I asked him why there is so much positive information about raw feeding available and told him I have friends that I've known for decades with Boxer Rescue who only feed raw and report nothing but good things. He said "anyone that feeds raw is crazy."

I am heartbroken. I don't agree with his assessment. I don't want to keep feeding her raw and pretend I'm not, in order to continue using him. Quite frankly his attitude today stunned me and offended me. I don't know if he was having a particularly bad day and took it out on me, because he was so needlessly harsh, IMO. My husband now thinks we should reconsider raw feeding, because of the whole bacteria thing the vet went on about. This vet has always been very vocal about his support of certain food brands and meds (for example, he only carries Advantage Multi heartworm/flea and badmouths any other type like Heartguard, etc...) so now I am beginning to think that has something to do with his reaction today.

What would you do? Throw away 12 years of an otherwise good vet relationship over this and continue to feed raw and find a holistic vet who supports raw feeding or return to a high quality kibble like Fromm or Acana, etc...and continue to use him? Another thought I had was, if I hadn't brought it up, he'd have never known I switched her. Do most people that feed raw not divulge that info to their vets? He stated that "no good vet will support raw feeding because it endangers everyone."

Anyway, if you made it to the end of this, thanks for reading :ashamed::ashamed::ashamed:

I know they aren't Frenchies, but this is my tripod cat he saved (his name was Jerry) and my new adopted cat, Stella

Frenchie Grrrl · May 25, 2018

I would say good bye and find a vet that is a better fit for you.

It sucks that your relationship had to end that way, but that's the way it often happens with relationships. He's set in his ways and doesn't seem to be open minded. Unfortunately, it's not that uncommon for conventional vets not to agree with raw feeding, but I've never heard of a vet actually refusing to treat a raw fed pet.

As far as the bacteria thing goes, just do a little research. I'm sure you are used to dealing with raw meat when cooking for your family, unless you are vegetarians, and know to wash your hands, etc after prepping meat. You are way more likely to get ill from contaminated lettuce than your dog's food, imo.

Alice Kable · May 25, 2018

I am such a hardcore follower of the vet's and my Dr's instructions I know I would switch back to a high rated kibble. My husband would have a total cow if I went against the vet's instructions, also. I try not to get into an "if only I would have..." situation.

Cute cats!

Tgirl · May 25, 2018

Everyone has their opinions, but mine is that a Veterinarian knows more than you or I, or someone that did some research on the internet. I don't mean to offend anyone at all. I know everyone had their opinions and I respect that but I listen to my Veterinarian on matters such as these.

I also would like to add that your vet should not have spoken to you in that way. If he didn't agree with raw feeding, he should have explained why. He shouldn't have attacked you.

2bullymama · May 25, 2018

I’d be looking for a new vet... due to his ultimatum, just not professional or a fair thing to say or expect. vets have little to no nutritional knowledge because their time is spent learning and practicing medicine. Absolutely no offense to them it is just the nature if the work load.

We recently had this conversation with our vet of 14 years and he told us there is something that prohibits them from referring, recommending or encouraging raw diets—- i wish I could remember what it was, but my GUESS would be insurance due to liability.

Keep in mind, if you don’t feed raw, chances are you’ll be buying from them... usually cones down to the almighty dollar- sad.

Best of luck in your decision

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Honeys Owners · May 26, 2018

I think there's almost no chance of your dog or yourself getting infection from dehydrated raw eg. Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucys, etc so buy that and make yourself, your dog, and your vet happy

FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

Thanks for your input Frenchie Grrrl, Alice Kable, Tgirl, 2bullymama, and Honeys Owners. I am completely bummed. I am going to be thinking about it all weekend - my husband and I decided to discuss further before making a decision. I DID ask the vet if he thought dehydrated raw was acceptable (like crushed and sprinkled over kibble) and he said any form of raw he was opposed to and would no longer see my pets. The more I think about everything he said, the angrier I become. I didn't even include all his comments - just the basics.

EDITED TO ADD: I definitely respect and want to heed the advice of a vet, but am probably going to search for one that will not be so harsh and abrasive. The ultimatum really surprised me. It's like he forgot everything I've been through with my pets in the last decade and was very critical when he didn't need to be, and the name calling? I'm just not comfortable with someone calling a colleague a "nutjob" if he or she doesn't agree with him. I'm sure there has to be a better fit for us.

Thanks again,
Hattie

Honeys Owners · May 26, 2018

Your vet should research his facts better. There isn't the same risk with dehydrated raw that there is with frozen raw or freeze dried raw. Here's what Honest Kitchen says:
“Most of our raw ingredients are dehydrated below 104 degrees F and are therefore still considered raw and the meats and eggs in our foods are dehydrated at a high enough temperature to kill any pathogenic bacteria that may be present, and the required temperature for this (about 165 degrees F) is essentially equivalent to cooking.”

Cbrugs · May 26, 2018

Okay sorry...this is a load of crap. Vets need to study nutrition and if they don’t agree with feeding raw then that’s fine but no way should he have spoken to you like that and that is reason alone to find a new vet.

Handling raw meat to feed your pets is no different than handling raw meat when cooking. Never once have I gotten sick and no one I know that feeds raw has gotten sick. Wash your hands. Wash your bowls. Wash everything!

I know so many pets that have gotten sick from those prescription diets and once those diets are stopped, the animal is all of a sudden just fine. Coincidence? I think not.

Do your research. Look up Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Rodney Habib. You’ll find lots of information.

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FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

I messaged four of my Boxer Rescue friends who have been feeding BARF for over 20 years about this and they pretty much have echoed the sentiments here. What bothers me most is the way he talked to me. He wouldn't even let me speak and cut me off at every chance. He has always been very opinionated but I don't think it was professional the way he responded to me or how he referred to colleagues. He loves to tout that he is the vet other vets send their "problem" animals to when he or she can't figure something out and in my mind I thought that was great "Hey, I'm cutting out the middle man by seeing him."

As far as raw feeding, for the few minutes it was "discussed," he said he is "sick of advising clients on diet issues when there is nothing wrong with commercial foods like Iams and Royal Canin." He stated that "14 year old kids that work in pet stores and sell raw food are just repeating what they are told to say by the manufacturers." He thinks "grain free is ridiculous and unnecessary and just a craze."

I have not decided what I am personally going to do about Daphne's food, but I am thinking more and more that I need to find a new vet regardless, because I feel so disrespected. I put my 14 year old cat through cancer treatment and an amputation for crying out loud and have always taken care of my previous pets to the best of my ability. I love my children and my family and would not endanger their health. He knows all of this. I am not some idiot, but he sure made me feel that way yesterday and I'm not sure I want to be subjected to such criticism in the future.

2bullymama · May 26, 2018

FroxerMom said:
I messaged four of my Boxer Rescue friends who have been feeding BARF for over 20 years about this and they pretty much have echoed the sentiments here. What bothers me most is the way he talked to me. He wouldn't even let me speak and cut me off at every chance. He has always been very opinionated but I don't think it was professional the way he responded to me or how he referred to colleagues. He loves to tout that he is the vet other vets send their "problem" animals to when he or she can't figure something out and in my mind I thought that was great "Hey, I'm cutting out the middle man by seeing him."

As far as raw feeding, for the few minutes it was "discussed," he said he is "sick of advising clients on diet issues when there is nothing wrong with commercial foods like Iams and Royal Canin." He stated that "14 year old kids that work in pet stores and sell raw food are just repeating what they are told to say by the manufacturers." He thinks "grain free is ridiculous and unnecessary and just a craze."

I have not decided what I am personally going to do about Daphne's food, but I am thinking more and more that I need to find a new vet regardless, because I feel so disrespected. I put my 14 year old cat through cancer treatment and an amputation for crying out loud and have always taken care of my previous pets to the best of my ability. I love my children and my family and would not endanger their health. He knows all of this. I am not some idiot, but he sure made me feel that way yesterday and I'm not sure I want to be subjected to such criticism in the future.

Well, he seems to be doing what he states the 14 year old at the pet store is doing.... I’m sure he sells all the brands he mentioned .

It really is a shame that you will lose a great relationship, but that treatment is unacceptable. He should have spoken to you on prod/cons and allowed YOU to make the decision... not threaten with an ultimatum.

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2bullymama · May 26, 2018

BTW... go to Netflix and watch the documentary ‘PetFooled’. .... what an eye opener

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Cbrugs · May 26, 2018

If you decide not to feed raw that’s fine, but do it because you did your research, not because of this ultimatum. And if you choose a kibble, don’t choose Iams or anything sold at the vets office. There are high quality kibbles out there, if that’s the route you choose to go.

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MamaAndi · May 26, 2018

I've been on both sides of the coin. We fed raw for quite a while and I definitely saw the benefits. Ultimately it just became too costly and I switched back to a good kibble fit. That being said I hate to hear that your vet talked down to you and couldn't give you information and let you make a decision on your own without giving you an ultimatum. I suppose that maybe it's a good thing that you saw the vet is capable of this type of behavior on a smaller issue of food choice rather than when there is some type of an emergency and he/she doesn't agree with the treatment you decide upon. It's hard to find a good vet but I hope you go with your gut instinct in the end.

Just know that YOU have done NOTHING wrong! You want the absolute best for your pet and that is what matters

FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

Cbrugs said:
Okay sorry...this is a load of crap. Vets need to study nutrition and if they don’t agree with feeding raw then that’s fine but no way should he have spoken to you like that and that is reason alone to find a new vet.

Handling raw meat to feed your pets is no different than handling raw meat when cooking. Never once have I gotten sick and no one I know that feeds raw has gotten sick. Wash your hands. Wash your bowls. Wash everything!

I know so many pets that have gotten sick from those prescription diets and once those diets are stopped, the animal is all of a sudden just fine. Coincidence? I think not.

Do your research. Look up Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Rodney Habib. You’ll find lots of information.

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Thanks - I will definitely look this info up. I've been very careful since starting, washing bowls and the utensil I use in hot soapy water, drying with separate towel and keeping in separate area until feeding time again, then I wipe the counters down.

FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

MamaAndi said:
I've been on both sides of the coin. We fed raw for quite a while and I definitely saw the benefits. Ultimately it just became too costly and I switched back to a good kibble fit. That being said I hate to hear that your vet talked down to you and couldn't give you information and let you make a decision on your own without giving you an ultimatum. I suppose that maybe it's a good thing that you saw the vet is capable of this type of behavior on a smaller issue of food choice rather than when there is some type of an emergency and he/she doesn't agree with the treatment you decide upon. It's hard to find a good vet but I hope you go with your gut instinct in the end.

Just know that YOU have done NOTHING wrong! You want the absolute best for your pet and that is what matters

Yes, I am thinking it was actually a blessing in disguise. I'd honestly rather find a vet who will treat me as a partner in the care of my animals, regardless of what I am feeding - kibble or raw. Sigh....

FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

Cbrugs said:
If you decide not to feed raw that’s fine, but do it because you did your research, not because of this ultimatum. And if you choose a kibble, don’t choose Iams or anything sold at the vets office. There are high quality kibbles out there, if that’s the route you choose to go.

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Oh yes, definitely. I was feeding her TOW Prey formula kibble and KOHA canned food mixed in before this. If I decide to stop raw, I would definitely do TOW or Acana or Fromm, etc...Thanks!

FroxerMom · May 26, 2018

2bullymama said:
BTW... go to Netflix and watch the documentary ‘PetFooled’. .... what an eye opener

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Guess I know what my husband and I will be watching tonight (little does he know...hahahaha...)

Seriously, the whole time he was ranting, I was thinking the same thing. The walking advertisement for Iams and Science Diet was turning me off.

2bullymama · May 26, 2018

FroxerMom said:
Guess I know what my husband and I will be watching tonight (little does he know...hahahaha...)

Seriously, the whole time he was ranting, I was thinking the same thing. The walking advertisement for Iams and Science Diet was turning me off.

The documentary helped get my other half to finally agree to feeding raw... he is a worry wart around raw so it took a LONG time to get him on same page... Petfooled did him in

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davidh · May 26, 2018

Sorry to hear this and that he is so narrow minded. Most vets don't know about good nutrition and that's why they sell the crap they do, plus the kick backs. Definitely would find another vet though.