Can't get allergies under control

Jakeyjake · Feb 20, 2015

Stella has been scratching non-stop! She also started licking her paws, which she had never done before. Most of you are familiar with her history, so sorry if this post is repetitive, but just can't get control of her darn allergies and we are all sleep deprived.
Her environmental allergy test showed a few things that she could be allergic to (dust mites, grasses, weeds) but the results were weak. We have also done the Nutriscan food sensitivity test and the results were useless. She was having so many secondary infections from scratching that we placed her on Atopica. Seemed to help initially, but then affected her appetite. Reduced the dosage so she would eat better and we are trying to find that thin line of how much will provide relief and how much upsets her stomach (we give her pepcid ac too). Frankly, at this point, I am wondering if it works at all. I don't want to put her on steroids long term either...too many side effects. Waiting for the availability of Apoquel and would love to try it. Mfg. is stating that it will be available June 2015 (apparently they can't keep up with the demand and existing patients are receiving it 1st before new ones). I check her skin regularly and apply Dermavet ointment to any red spots that start to develop. Soooooo we are in the process of switching her food...again. We have always fed grain free and potatoe free, except for a food trial her vet recommended of Royal Canin duck and potato, which made her constipated and full of gas (& she still kept scratching after 3 weeks). We have tried Horizon Pulsar Salmon, Grandma Lucys Pureformance chicken (made her vomit), Nature's Variety Instinct raw chicken (made her vomit), and currently she is on Amicus. Now we are transitioning to Acana Pork & butternut squash. So I am hopeful we can get our hands on Apoquel soon and that the Acana will help. I really don't know what else to do. Sorry for the long post and thanks for letting me vent.

Tgirl · Feb 20, 2015

I hope you can get some Apoquel soon. We have it in stock, but it's hit and miss. It is like a miracle drug for many dogs.

Cbrugs · Feb 20, 2015

We are in the same boat and I know exactly how you feel. Jax has been itching and licking his paws excessively too, waking us up in the middle of the night as he sleeps in the bed. Jax is on Apoquel but it seems to be wearing off just under 24 hours. As he also received bi-weekly allergy shots, I have been trying to determine if the new itching is food related. I had transitioned him to Fromm lamb/lentil a couple weeks ago and after a few days he had sores and wounds from scratching so much so I have no switched him to Nature's Variety LID turkey but Tuesday was the first day fully on that and he is still itching. I know it can take several weeks to notice a difference so, unfortunately, I have stopped the Apoquel and am giving him Temaril P to STOP the itching as he was just tearing himself apart. I know long term use of steroids is not ideal but I am hoping that after being on the NV LID for a couple weeks, he will go back to normal. I just need him to stop scratching himself for now and will take him off the steroid in a couple of weeks and then see we'll see if the food has helped. If not, I guess it's back to the dermatologist we go! None of the vets out here do allergy testing for food so if anything, they will tell me to do the elimination diet and go on the RX food which I am trying to avoid. I really hate not being able to help him.

winginit66 · Feb 20, 2015

So sorry [MENTION=600]Jakeyjake[/MENTION] and [MENTION=188]Cbrugs[/MENTION] that you guys are having these problems! Don't apologize for anything. I think we all wish we had the answer for you...

MaplesMommy · Feb 20, 2015

I know this has been said before but : Almost every day I have people tell me 'my dog has allergies. He itches and scratches and its really bad'. But the truth is : Only rarely it really is a food sensitivity. 95% of the time its cause by yeast or rather a yeast overgrowth. Everybody has yeast to a certain degree but it can overpopulate. For that it needs starch , and if thats combined with an already supressed immune system from steroids,antibiotics(which of course arent gonna help since yeast is part of the fungus group) etc, then thats the perfect storm.
Its not just the 'old talk'; I really see it daily. What do we do? We fight of the yeast from the outside(ACV Spray, Oregano/coconut oil) and the inside (probiotics such as kefir) but most importantely take the sugars out of the diet. All kibble,no matter how great the brand, needs starch in order to stick together and make that perfect little kibble piece.
Dogs were never designed to eat a high carb diet. They evolved on 6% carbs in their diet, not 50-70%. There were never conditions such as diabetes or cancer in dogs and look at us now. Every other (!) dog in North America will get cancer nowadays. Thats a very shocking reality and I think we should all think about this.
Long story short: i seen that you have tried to put her on a fresh diet before and you mentioned she had vomited. I would definitely give it another try. Try a different company, make sure you give her the amounts needed but maybe transition slow. Add a few herbs and supplements here and there and she should really clear up.

eeturk · Feb 20, 2015

It seems like the vomiting trend comes with chicken based food.. Have you tried a different type of raw? Hudson goes crazy for stella and Chewy's frozen duck duck goose, lamb, and surf and turf. Might be worth trying a different flavor or brand.

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mmclean · Feb 21, 2015

The only thing I can add is that Radar throws up if I give him anything chicken based. It's not immediately either, it's typically many hours after eating the food/treat. Everyone else has given great ideas and information.

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Cbrugs · Feb 21, 2015

Jax gets coconut oil, local raw honey, kefir and salmon oil. I've homecooked. I've done ACV soaks/rinsed, povidone iodine soaks, medicated shampoo baths, wiping him down after coming inside, tablets with turmeric and bromelain....none of that has helped. Coming home to find your dog has scratched himself so much and caused bleeding and has sores is not fun. I know long term steroid use is not good but at this point, it's temporary so that he will stop scratching while I try to figure out what the issue.

Jakeyjake · Feb 21, 2015

eeturk said:
It seems like the vomiting trend comes with chicken based food.. Have you tried a different type of raw? Hudson goes crazy for stella and Chewy's frozen duck duck goose, lamb, and surf and turf. Might be worth trying a different flavor or brand.

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Thanks for the suggestion Erika. I will keep that in mind.

eeturk · Feb 21, 2015

Jakeyjake said:
Thanks for the suggestion Erika. I will keep that in mind.

Also read the S&C ingredients carefully, all of the proteins in the food are not always disclosed in the name.

It has worked wonders for my super picky eater and is the only food he'll eat. Hopefully poor stella starts to feel better.

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Jakeyjake · Feb 21, 2015

Thanks [MENTION=193]winginit66[/MENTION] and [MENTION=179]Tgirl[/MENTION].

Jakeyjake · Feb 21, 2015

Cbrugs said:
We are in the same boat and I know exactly how you feel. Jax has been itching and licking his paws excessively too, waking us up in the middle of the night as he sleeps in the bed. Jax is on Apoquel but it seems to be wearing off just under 24 hours. As he also received bi-weekly allergy shots, I have been trying to determine if the new itching is food related. I had transitioned him to Fromm lamb/lentil a couple weeks ago and after a few days he had sores and wounds from scratching so much so I have no switched him to Nature's Variety LID turkey but Tuesday was the first day fully on that and he is still itching. I know it can take several weeks to notice a difference so, unfortunately, I have stopped the Apoquel and am giving him Temaril P to STOP the itching as he was just tearing himself apart. I know long term use of steroids is not ideal but I am hoping that after being on the NV LID for a couple weeks, he will go back to normal. I just need him to stop scratching himself for now and will take him off the steroid in a couple of weeks and then see we'll see if the food has helped. If not, I guess it's back to the dermatologist we go! None of the vets out here do allergy testing for food so if anything, they will tell me to do the elimination diet and go on the RX food which I am trying to avoid. I really hate not being able to help him.

My vet informed me that the Apoquel works for 18 hours. So not the ideal drug I guess, but willing to try anything. Also, just curious about Jax allergy shots being given bi-weekly because Jake is on allergy shots too and we give them every two weeks now. We did have to back off of the dosing schedule a bit because he broke out in hives. But now he is on 1 ml/cc every two weeks and tolerates it fine.
Also I was told by Stella's vet that the allergy tests are not that accurate to begin with. It's a shot in the dark if you get a good serum that will help. Then he also said it is effective in 50-60% of dogs. Not great odds.
You can try the Nutriscan for food sensitivities if you want.(NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs) It's a saliva test and can all be done through the mail (not cheap either) Not sure if it is accurate and if I wasted my money, but I tried it for both dogs. Stella's came back with no food sensitivities and Jake's said to avoid, peanuts, potatoes, pork and corn. They test for 24 foods.
How old is Jax? Has he had allergies since he was a pup? I feel so bad for the poor dogs suffering. Can you imagine what it must be like to be itchy all of the time? Ugh!
Hope the NV turkey helps Jax. Keep me posted on his progress.

Jakeyjake · Feb 21, 2015

MaplesMommy said:
I know this has been said before but : Almost every day I have people tell me 'my dog has allergies. He itches and scratches and its really bad'. But the truth is : Only rarely it really is a food sensitivity. 95% of the time its cause by yeast or rather a yeast overgrowth. Everybody has yeast to a certain degree but it can overpopulate. For that it needs starch , and if thats combined with an already supressed immune system from steroids,antibiotics(which of course arent gonna help since yeast is part of the fungus group) etc, then thats the perfect storm.
Its not just the 'old talk'; I really see it daily. What do we do? We fight of the yeast from the outside(ACV Spray, Oregano/coconut oil) and the inside (probiotics such as kefir) but most importantely take the sugars out of the diet. All kibble,no matter how great the brand, needs starch in order to stick together and make that perfect little kibble piece.
Dogs were never designed to eat a high carb diet. They evolved on 6% carbs in their diet, not 50-70%. There were never conditions such as diabetes or cancer in dogs and look at us now. Every other (!) dog in North America will get cancer nowadays. Thats a very shocking reality and I think we should all think about this.
Long story short: i seen that you have tried to put her on a fresh diet before and you mentioned she had vomited. I would definitely give it another try. Try a different company, make sure you give her the amounts needed but maybe transition slow. Add a few herbs and supplements here and there and she should really clear up.

Thanks for all of the information. I will try another raw diet with a different protein for Stella if the Acana fails. I do give her probiotics, salmon oil and Solid Gold Seameal. Will just keep trying to find her relief.

Cbrugs · Feb 21, 2015

Jakeyjake said:
My vet informed me that the Apoquel works for 18 hours. So not the ideal drug I guess, but willing to try anything. Also, just curious about Jax allergy shots being given bi-weekly because Jake is on allergy shots too and we give them every two weeks now. We did have to back off of the dosing schedule a bit because he broke out in hives. But now he is on 1 ml/cc every two weeks and tolerates it fine.
Also I was told by Stella's vet that the allergy tests are not that accurate to begin with. It's a shot in the dark if you get a good serum that will help. Then he also said it is effective in 50-60% of dogs. Not great odds.
You can try the Nutriscan for food sensitivities if you want.(NutriScan Food Sensitivity and Intolerance Test for Cats and Dogs) It's a saliva test and can all be done through the mail (not cheap either) Not sure if it is accurate and if I wasted my money, but I tried it for both dogs. Stella's came back with no food sensitivities and Jake's said to avoid, peanuts, potatoes, pork and corn. They test for 24 foods.
How old is Jax? Has he had allergies since he was a pup? I feel so bad for the poor dogs suffering. Can you imagine what it must be like to be itchy all of the time? Ugh!
Hope the NV turkey helps Jax. Keep me posted on his progress.

When he first started the Apoquel it worked wonders and just within the last few months he has been itching and chewing his paws again which is why I'm playing with different foods now.

Jax will be 2 in April and the allergies started before he was 1. He gets .5 cc every two weeks. When we were first building up the dosage, the first time he got 1 cc, his face swelled up and the second time, he broke out in hives all over his body so the derm had me go back and stay at .5.

It is definitely frustrating and makes me feel awful that he is so uncomfortable and I do all I can. Hopefully one day we can both get these allergies under control!

Our winter has been very weird here (seattle area) and it's been more like spring with flowers and trees blooming so I do wonder if that is adding on to the situation.

I will check out the Nutriscan.

bomstar · Feb 22, 2015

so sorry to hear about stella's allergies!

napoleon is eating taste of the wild pacific stream and is doing really well on that right now. he still scratches and rubs up against the carpet occasionally, but it is a fraction of what it used to be like! we also started giving him salmon oil which has helped with his skin/shedding. when he had his first secondary infection from scratching, the vet prescribed medicated shampoo that actually calmed down the bumps/rashes caused by the allergy. we also feed him 2 25mg bendaryl/day. the vet said if we want to try claritin, it would be 5mg once a day (not claritin-d or other kind).

napoleon started developing skin allergies at about 10 months and we were trying to "figure them out" but eventually caved and got bloodwork done to test for allergies through the spectrum group ($260, but we had already met our deductible and 90% coinsurance kicked in). we found he's allergic to most types of grasses (good thing we live in brooklyn), as well as a few food allergies. when the vet explained it to us, she said it isn't uncommon for frenchies to have soy, pea, or oat allergies. the test showed napoleon is also allergic to brewer's yeast and kelp.