Not Exactly Getting Along...

Nicole G · Jan 11, 2017

So Ella and Kali met in person for the first time today (away from the crate). It was going fine until Kali decided to try and chew on her sister's foot, and then Ell got pretty taken aback. They don't fight, but they don't exactly get along with each other either. Kali wants to bite everything, and Ella's not okay with that and I'm not sure what to do. It's only day three and I didn't have exceptionally high expectations, but I'm a little disheartened as I thought they'd be a little better with each other.

I know Kali is a baby and still teething and there's not much anyone can do about that, but if I could just keep her from biting Ella, things would go a lot easier. I also feel bad because I haven't been able to spend much time with Kali one on one yet (someone else is helping me with her) and I'm worried she'll see them as her person and not me since Ella wants to help me with Kali so badly that when I try to leave her to go have some alone time with Kali she cries like a baby. I'm so happy I did this but I'm worried that they won't get along whatsoever if Kali doesn't stop biting.

As I said I adore them both but I'm just a little disheartened. If anyone has had any experience with this any help would be appreciated, as I thought I had them figured out but I guess I was wrong! :no:

Jakeyjake · Jan 11, 2017

What exactly is it that Ella is doing to show her dislike of Kali's behavior? Is she snapping at her or growling? When we brought Stella home as a puppy she was relentless - growling, biting and pulling on Jake's jowls. He has always been pretty laid back so he took it ok, but we had to intervene alot and put Stella in her xpen when she wouldn't let up to give Jake a break. Teething puppies can be very annoying but hopefully she will learn her boundaries from Ella soon. I am raising a service puppy and literally for the first 5 months or so, every time I would just walk by Stella with the pup on leash, Stella would snap the air. She wanted nothing to do with her. Now they play tug of war all the time and get along fine.

Nicole G · Jan 11, 2017

[MENTION=600]Jakeyjake[/MENTION] Jake sounds similar to Ella personality-wise - she's pretty relaxed as a general rule. Aside from a bit of separation anxiety when it comes to me leaving her for long periods of time, she really is good with just about anything. So she doesn't really do anything when Kali comes at her; she just kind of looks confused and gets a bit tense. My concern is more Kali accidently hurting her or her getting snippy eventually after she gets tired of being chewed on. When they're both relaxed, they don't really bother each other. Ella actually accidently sat on Kali in the car today and neither one cared much.

Alice Kable · Jan 11, 2017

Kali will grow out of wanting to bite everything, meanwhile tell her NO BITE then give her a nylabone or other suitable thing to chew on. Ella can help also by growling at the pup when she has had enough. Ella will need time away from Kali as puppies can be very annoying.

Nicole G · Jan 12, 2017

Okay so here's the issue. Ella is actually great with her when she's calm. It's just when Kali starts to bite and play growl...Ella doesn't get that. She gets upset and that's when they get weird with each other. They slept next to each other on the couch for two hours today with no problem, and when they got up they were fine until Kali started to get rough. Kali had five siblings and she was the smallest so I get the feeling that she got picked on by them and biting was her way of defending herself.

Is Kali too young (10 weeks) to teach her not to bite us or Ella? Does anyone have any tips on doing so? She also doesn't like to be put in her pen and she screams the whole time. Unfortunately as I said before I am not the only one taking care of her at the moment so as much as I'm trying to reinforce these commands and such, she hasn't really bonded with me whatsoever and I'm a bit upset over that. It wasn't the best situation right now for getting a puppy but I certainly wasn't going to pass her up, it's just hard to make it work right now without having someone else watching Kali when I can't. Plus it's extra difficult right now given that I have to keep Ella and her separated a portion of the time to make sure Kali doesn't accidently hurt her.

2bullymama · Jan 12, 2017

Nicole G said:
Okay so here's the issue. Ella is actually great with her when she's calm. It's just when Kali starts to bite and play growl...Ella doesn't get that. She gets upset and that's when they get weird with each other. They slept next to each other on the couch for two hours today with no problem, and when they got up they were fine until Kali started to get rough. Kali had five siblings and she was the smallest so I get the feeling that she got picked on by them and biting was her way of defending herself.

Is Kali too young (10 weeks) to teach her not to bite us or Ella? Does anyone have any tips on doing so? She also doesn't like to be put in her pen and she screams the whole time.

Not too young at all... when you put her in the crate try giving her one of your t-shirts. Is this for night time, if yes, cover the crate if you are not.

As for the nipping, you can use the water bottle and spray her with a firm NO, but Kali should correct her when she has had enough. Cheli does this to Lambeau when he has had enough of him and he backs right off

Nicole G · Jan 12, 2017

[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] should I worry about Kali hurting Ella though? She's tiny but when she bites she hurts - I don't want Ella to get cut by those puppy teeth.

Also Kali growls (playfully) at Ella - Ella doesn't say a word. She just kind of jumps away from Kali.

2bullymama · Jan 12, 2017

Nicole G said:
[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] should I worry about Kali hurting Ella though? She's tiny but when she bites she hurts - I don't want Ella to get cut by those puppy teeth. Also Kali growls (playfully) at Ella - Ella doesn't say a word. She just kind of jumps away from Kali.

Sorry had the names backwards ... puppy teeth are brutal but should be too damaging. When Ella has had enough she will give a warning .. since Ella knows the growl is in play that is why she does not react... with her not reacting Kali will get it at some point and go find her own fun.

If you can... video the next session and post to make sure I'm understanding correctly

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Nicole G · Jan 12, 2017

2bullymama said:
Sorry had the names backwards ... puppy teeth are brutal but should be too damaging. When Ella has had enough she will give a warning .. since Ella knows the growl is in play that is why she does not react... with her not reacting Kali will get it at some point and go find her own fun.

If you can... video the next session and post to make sure I'm understanding correctly

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That's quite alright - I ended up calling her "Ella" a few times today much to her and Ella's confusion. Thank you though - trying to figure these two out is hard enough when you aren't slightly frustrated; let alone when you are! As far as the growling goes, it's hard to get it on video as I've tried before, but it's the same kind of growling that they do when they're shaking a toy or tugging on something if you know what I mean.

I love having the two of them. I'm just getting a bit frustrated with Kali as she can be sweet as pie but turn very bite-y and bossy sometimes. And the one thing I forgot to mention is that she has made everyone here bleed when she bites - her teeth are like knives, lol.

2bullymama · Jan 12, 2017

Puppy teeth are like little razors... they will be gone around 5 mths.

Do you use nothing in life is free?

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Nicole G · Jan 13, 2017

[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] Sorry for the delay - yes to Nothing in Life is Free! That was what I did with Ella and she is an absolute angel.

It did help when a family member reminded me that Ella used to act just like Kali when she was a baby though. It was just easier then because I had no other pets and I didn't have to worry about one injuring the other!

Mavis · Jan 13, 2017

Awww, I'm sorry you are somewhat disheartened. I think puppies can be very vexing to older dogs. They just do annoying things (like chewing on Ella's foot uninvited), are always racing around, sometimes biting, crashing into things, trying to engage when the other dog doesn't want to play, etc. Plus, Kali is testing her boundaries and they are establishing a dominance hierarchy. Ella may have to correct Kale occasionally, but that doesn't mean that they aren't getting along. Momma dogs do that with annoying babies, too. Frenchies seem so chill to me that I think when baby gets a little older and settles more, the two of them will be just fine. Also, I think this is all still very new - only three days. After a few weeks when Ella is used to Kali and they have more of a routine and stuff worked out, Ella will really come to love her little sis. I hope so.

Good luck.

Mavis · Jan 13, 2017

Nicole G said:
[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] should I worry about Kali hurting Ella though? She's tiny but when she bites she hurts - I don't want Ella to get cut by those puppy teeth. Also Kali growls (playfully) at Ella - Ella doesn't say a word. She just kind of jumps away from Kali.

Sounds like they are doing just fine. Ella know what she is doing and Kali is reading her loud and clear. They will be taking naps together in no time flat. I bet they will really come to love each other.

Nicole G · Jan 13, 2017

[MENTION=1070]Mavis[/MENTION] Thank you. I know it will get easier with the two of them as Kali gets older. It's just that I really do adore them both and really want this to work out. They're actually my first two dogs of my own - we always had dogs growing up but they were Chihuahuas on and off and I never really liked them - so I'm still really learning the ropes of dog ownership and having two instead of just Ella. They did both pass out next to each other and slept for a good two hours together on my lap last night, so that felt like progress.

It's funny - two days here and as much as I haven't gotten to spend a ton of time with her, Kali knows who the boss is and she also waited for me when I went upstairs this morning. She is a doll, just a very hyper one!

Mavis · Jan 13, 2017

Awww; that sounds wonderful! They are getting along and love each other already if they are sleeping next to each other.

Frenchies are very happy and sociable little dogs. Ella has a companion now. It will be great; you'll see.

2bullymama · Jan 13, 2017

Nicole G said:
@2bullymama Sorry for the delay - yes to Nothing in Life is Free! That was what I did with Ella and she is an absolute angel.

It did help when a family member reminded me that Ella used to act just like Kali when she was a baby though. It was just easier then because I had no other pets and I didn't have to worry about one injuring the other!

No worries... just remember, a tired puppy is a good puppy so if she has a higher energy level, be sure to do some walks or play time to lessen her 'bulling' of Ella

Nicole G · Jan 13, 2017

[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] Yes! Unfortunately the breeder told me not to take her out till she's 16 weeks, since she hasn't finished her shots yet. Instead she gets a few minutes multiple times a day to run like crazy around the house and play. Other than that she has a large xpen big enough to throw toys in that we play with her in or she's being carried around a bit just to get her used to being picked up.

They were playing today through the bars of Kali's pen. Ella would lift her paws and sort of hit at the bars while Kali barked and jumped from inside. Is that playing? Or is that mean?

2bullymama · Jan 13, 2017

Nicole G said:
[MENTION=2]2bullymama[/MENTION] Yes! Unfortunately the breeder told me not to take her out till she's 16 weeks, since she hasn't finished her shots yet. Instead she gets a few minutes multiple times a day to run like crazy around the house and play. Other than that she has a large xpen big enough to throw toys in that we play with her in or she's being carried around a bit just to get her used to being picked up.

They were playing today through the bars of Kali's pen. Ella would lift her paws and sort of hit at the bars while Kali barked and jumped from inside. Is that playing? Or is that mean?

Sounds like play to me

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Nicole G · Jan 14, 2017

Here's one other question: Does anyone think I'm worrying too much? I don't want to make a problem where there may not be one by not putting them together. I know Frenchie play can be really rough.

2bullymama · Jan 14, 2017

You have to watch them when playing, no doubt and as you watch you'll learn when to stop them. I'm gonna see if i have any videos of when this happens-- I'll post when i fond them

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