liver enzyme ALT still elevated :(

mhuinker · Sep 24, 2015

Wow! 900!?! Hopefully, you can get that down soon!

frenchiewinnie · Feb 1, 2016

chubbybunnymax said:
Hi all,

Thanks so much for your support. We got Maximus's bloodwork back and his ALT is still very high (around 900). [MENTION=194]mhuinker[/MENTION] I have no idea what is causing the elevated enzymes. It's good news that your pup's levels went back down.

Maximus is off the antibiotics now. I'm focusing on trying to get his ALT with Milk Thistle and Denamarin to at least normal high. :T

---------------------------------

Hi Jessica, I just wanted to check in and see if you have any updates on Maximus's status? I'm currently in the exact same situation (although my girl is 9). I have two frenchies, both have been on the same diet and both had high ALT levels back in November. They were eating Primal raw nuggets 2x/day in the lamb and beef varieties. After getting their test results, I did a lot of research and learned that red meat like lamb and beef can be really hard on their liver, so I started making their breakfast (cooked organic brown rice noodles, organic mixed veggies, and eggs on top), and then I give them either the raw patties in chicken or turkey for dinner with organic pumpkin on top. I also add vitamin E, probiotics and fish oil to their food in the morning, and b vitamins and milk thistle in the evening. For a month they were both on Denamarin. They've been off the meds for at least a month now (my vet doesn't have a very holistic approach and doesn't think what I do food-wise will help or hinder their condition). Anyways, Natty (the 9 year old's) ALT levels have gone from 647 in November to 839 today, whereas my other frenchie Winnie's went from 301 in November, to 27 now!! The only change I made was the diet, and since they haven't been taking the meds, I can't say they have helped either. So it looks like with Winnie the change of diet has drastically helped, whereas with Natty, her condition is far more serious. Just like you, the specialist has suggested a liver biopsy. She is asymptomatic and has normal energy*levels and hasn't gained or lost any weight. The only thing I have noticed is the amount of water she drinks has increased. My vet scolded me for not continuing the Denamarin. Anyways, just wanted to see if you've had any luck with anything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully you have good news to share!

Louie66mom · Jun 16, 2017

[MENTION=1733]frenchiewinnie[/MENTION] - how are your dogs doing? I am going through the same thing right now with Louie - ALT 998+ and I feed Primal Beef. Vet wants me to take him completely off Raw but I am thinking maybe I need to start small and just take him off beef. Thoughts?
- did we ever get an update on Maximus? I hope all the fur babies are doing well.

CarrotTheFrenchie · Jun 20, 2017

Seems like there are several of us on this site who are dealing with the same issue. Carrot has had elevated ALT levels and while those levels aren't as elevated as some of the numbers here, her vet suggested she start on Denamarin. She's been in for the last few weeks. Once we get done with the first box of medication, we will take her back in for a re test. I'd love to get to the bottom of what it is that's CAUSING the issue. It's possible she ate something and I didn't see her. But If it's due to a food or something else she's exposed to every day, it would be good for all of us to know. Maybe we can all share info. As I said in another post, Carrot eats Orijen Six fish. She doesn't really get any treats. Only pumpkin added to her kibble and an occasional yak chew, antler or Nyla bone. The on,y other thing I use every day is EarthBrand products. Their hypoallergenic wipes and their dental wipes. Curious to hear what other products, etc everyone else (with this issue) is using. Maybe we can find a common culprit!

.

QUOTE=frenchiewinnie;41396]---------------------------------

Hi Jessica, I just wanted to check in and see if you have any updates on Maximus's status? I'm currently in the exact same situation (although my girl is 9). I have two frenchies, both have been on the same diet and both had high ALT levels back in November. They were eating Primal raw nuggets 2x/day in the lamb and beef varieties. After getting their test results, I did a lot of research and learned that red meat like lamb and beef can be really hard on their liver, so I started making their breakfast (cooked organic brown rice noodles, organic mixed veggies, and eggs on top), and then I give them either the raw patties in chicken or turkey for dinner with organic pumpkin on top. I also add vitamin E, probiotics and fish oil to their food in the morning, and b vitamins and milk thistle in the evening. For a month they were both on Denamarin. They've been off the meds for at least a month now (my vet doesn't have a very holistic approach and doesn't think what I do food-wise will help or hinder their condition). Anyways, Natty (the 9 year old's) ALT levels have gone from 647 in November to 839 today, whereas my other frenchie Winnie's went from 301 in November, to 27 now!! The only change I made was the diet, and since they haven't been taking the meds, I can't say they have helped either. So it looks like with Winnie the change of diet has drastically helped, whereas with Natty, her condition is far more serious. Just like you, the specialist has suggested a liver biopsy. She is asymptomatic and has normal energy*levels and hasn't gained or lost any weight. The only thing I have noticed is the amount of water she drinks has increased. My vet scolded me for not continuing the Denamarin. Anyways, just wanted to see if you've had any luck with anything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully you have good news to share![/QUOTE]

Honeys Owners · Jun 20, 2017

Sorry to hear about Carrot. Just wondering if she should switch foods as fish is known to contain high amounts of contaminants? Orijen Six Fish was in the top 10 most contaminated dog foods out of 299 tested on clean label project web site. Some people here don't think that site is legit, but who knows. Dog and Cat Food - Clean Label Project

CarrotTheFrenchie said:
Seems like there are several of us on this site who are dealing with the same issue. Carrot has had elevated ALT levels and while those levels aren't as elevated as some of the numbers here, her vet suggested she start on Denamarin. She's been in for the last few weeks. Once we get done with the first box of medication, we will take her back in for a re test. I'd love to get to the bottom of what it is that's CAUSING the issue. It's possible she ate something and I didn't see her. But If it's due to a food or something else she's exposed to every day, it would be good for all of us to know. Maybe we can all share info. As I said in another post, Carrot eats Orijen Six fish. She doesn't really get any treats. Only pumpkin added to her kibble and an occasional yak chew, antler or Nyla bone. The on,y other thing I use every day is EarthBrand products. Their hypoallergenic wipes and their dental wipes. Curious to hear what other products, etc everyone else (with this issue) is using. Maybe we can find a common culprit!

.

QUOTE=frenchiewinnie;41396]---------------------------------

Hi Jessica, I just wanted to check in and see if you have any updates on Maximus's status? I'm currently in the exact same situation (although my girl is 9). I have two frenchies, both have been on the same diet and both had high ALT levels back in November. They were eating Primal raw nuggets 2x/day in the lamb and beef varieties. After getting their test results, I did a lot of research and learned that red meat like lamb and beef can be really hard on their liver, so I started making their breakfast (cooked organic brown rice noodles, organic mixed veggies, and eggs on top), and then I give them either the raw patties in chicken or turkey for dinner with organic pumpkin on top. I also add vitamin E, probiotics and fish oil to their food in the morning, and b vitamins and milk thistle in the evening. For a month they were both on Denamarin. They've been off the meds for at least a month now (my vet doesn't have a very holistic approach and doesn't think what I do food-wise will help or hinder their condition). Anyways, Natty (the 9 year old's) ALT levels have gone from 647 in November to 839 today, whereas my other frenchie Winnie's went from 301 in November, to 27 now!! The only change I made was the diet, and since they haven't been taking the meds, I can't say they have helped either. So it looks like with Winnie the change of diet has drastically helped, whereas with Natty, her condition is far more serious. Just like you, the specialist has suggested a liver biopsy. She is asymptomatic and has normal energy*levels and hasn't gained or lost any weight. The only thing I have noticed is the amount of water she drinks has increased. My vet scolded me for not continuing the Denamarin. Anyways, just wanted to see if you've had any luck with anything. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully you have good news to share!

[/QUOTE]

CarrotTheFrenchie · Jun 21, 2017

I know. I want to switch her to another food but there are just TOO MANY CHOICES and I'm not sure which one would be best. Feeling overwhelmed.

Honeys Owners · Jun 23, 2017

How about Acana Singles Pork and Squash, or Lamb and Apple ? Both are limited ingredient so hopefully Carrot won't react.

CarrotTheFrenchie · Jun 25, 2017

I just started her on Small Batch last week. She love she it so far. But what food doesn't she love? &#55357;&#56860;

Mavis · Jun 25, 2017

Good luck; I hope it is a temporary condition that will stabilize over time. Please keep us posted. They are just adorable dogs.

azoul · Aug 4, 2018

chubbybunnymax said:
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a wonderful summer! I'm looking forward to the cooler temperatures so little Maximus could play outside more.

I've been MIA since Maximus went to the ER in June and we found out his ALT was elevated (up to 800!). He had the biles acid test done as well as an ultrasound that came out pretty normal. We took him off his raw diet and started home cooking. We are checking periodically his ALT levels and they still remain high so I finally caved and Maximus is now on a course of antibiotics.

I was wondering if anyone else went through this - elevated liver enzyme in asymptomatic dog. We are holding off on the neuter surgery and trying to find out what is actually causing his enzymes to elevate. So stressed...

View attachment 6800

I am having the same exact problem and I have no idea what to do!! I dont want him to die, hes only 9 months!!

mhuinker · Aug 4, 2018

chubbybunnymax said:
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a wonderful summer! I'm looking forward to the cooler temperatures so little Maximus could play outside more.

I've been MIA since Maximus went to the ER in June and we found out his ALT was elevated (up to 800!). He had the biles acid test done as well as an ultrasound that came out pretty normal. We took him off his raw diet and started home cooking. We are checking periodically his ALT levels and they still remain high so I finally caved and Maximus is now on a course of antibiotics.

I was wondering if anyone else went through this - elevated liver enzyme in asymptomatic dog. We are holding off on the neuter surgery and trying to find out what is actually causing his enzymes to elevate. So stressed...

View attachment 6800

Hi - Yes, we have a Frenchie, our Bitty, that is/was in liver failure about 2 years ago. There could be any range of things that could cause this and no one can really pinpoint the culprit. Bitty tested as high as 2000+ at her worst. She spent 5 days in the vet's care on IV fluids. Once she was stabalized, our vet put her on Denamarin, which she will take for the rest of her life. She also has fluids twice a week for the rest of her life. Thankfully our vet is wonderful. She saved her life. She also does not charge an office visit every time we take her in for fluids, but we also do give her fluids ourselves sometimes. It's heartbreaking, but right now we are thankful she is still with us and is a happy, easy going, playful 8 year old little girl.

Bitty is on a half raw, half kibble diet, always has been. We don't believe that is the culprit, but again, no one really knows. Her numbers are ranging more normal now, but once in a while they will "Spike" up to the 300-500 range. We don't have her tested as often any longer and just keep her maintenance up.

I forgot to mention she did have x-rays and ultrasound of her liver, but I don't remember her having any biopsies.

-Michelle

GraciesMom · Aug 5, 2018

I had no idea there were so many people on this site with Frenchie liver problems. We have also dealt with this issue. At 5 months old Gracie started vomiting. We took her to the vet and elevated ALT levels were discovered in her blood work up. Subsequently, our vet thought the vomiting wasn't even related to the liver issue. I symphasize with everyone going through this because it's difficult to discover what might be causing the problem. Gracie came to us with a host of medical problems requiring treatment with a number of medications, some simultaneously. I suspect this cocktail of drugs was responsible but I don't know for sure.

The good news for Max is that the bile acid test was close to normal. ATL is only produced when liver cells are damaged, but those enzymes don't give a good picture of how the liver is functioning. The bile acid test measures liver function so Max's liver is still doing the job. The ultrasound, while not completely reliable, has probably ruled out a congenital liver shunt. We had the same results with Gracie as you have reported (high ATL, mostly normal bile acid test and ultrasound). As others have mentioned, I would suggest continuing the Denamarin (or milk thistle). In Gracie's case we used the Denamarin and avoided any medications unless absolutely necessary (including vaccines). Her ATL and all other liver enzymes have been in the normal range on the past three blood panels.

I hope that everyone worrying about their Frenchie's liver issues will find both the cause and the cure.

Frenchie Grrrl · Aug 5, 2018

Yeah, I would certainly avoid any vaccines, wormers, flea/tick treatments, etc.

So sorry all you are going through this. So scary.

Cookie · Oct 17, 2018

Any update? My Frenchies are having the same problem.

chloe chloe · Nov 29, 2018

Same here. Our dog is 3 yo and asymptomatic but has elevated ALT. We have used Denamarin and it went down then it went up again at the next test - no change in diet or behavior between the two tests. We feed her raw food and she gets exercise, is healthy, and happy. We had an ultrasound to rule out a shunt and now the vet is suggesting EXPLORATORY SURGERY!!

Is it possible that high ALT is "normal" for some dogs and doesn't affect their longevity? For the other posters here, can you please share the final diagnosis that resulted in a cure?

We are at our wits end and want to do the right thing for our dog without subjecting her to unnecessary procedures.

Thank you for any suggestions you have!

mhuinker · Jan 7, 2019

Hi everyone,

Again we are at our wits end with sweet little Bitty. Just wondering if anyone has had any new developments on this issue.

For a little over 2 years now our Bitty has been on Denamarin and sub-q fluids twice a week for her liver issue.

I’m just hoping for some ideas and opinions to look at.

She has recently (since yesterday) started vomiting and having diarrhea. No blood present, and unlike before the holidays she IS eating (she was refusing to eat for the most part for a couple of weeks before Christmas). We got through that and thought she had turned a corner and were working on her gaining some weight back. Now this, and we just don’t know what to do for her.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

2bullymama · Jan 8, 2019

mhuinker said:
Hi everyone,

Again we are at our wits end with sweet little Bitty. Just wondering if anyone has had any new developments on this issue.

For a little over 2 years now our Bitty has been on Denamarin and sub-q fluids twice a week for her liver issue.

I’m just hoping for some ideas and opinions to look at.

She has recently (since yesterday) started vomiting and having diarrhea. No blood present, and unlike before the holidays she IS eating (she was refusing to eat for the most part for a couple of weeks before Christmas). We got through that and thought she had turned a corner and were working on her gaining some weight back. Now this, and we just don’t know what to do for her.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So sorry to hear this... I can only send lots of prayers and positive thoughts as I have no experience. have you checked Dr. Becker's website for insight? https://healthypets.mercola.com/

dermich · Jan 10, 2019

I'm with you Frenchie Girl, all the things vets want to give our fur babies puts a lot of stress on their liver.
A 8 lb Frenchie gets the same amount of vaccinations as a 40 lb German shepherd?
I give vaccinosis to my girls when they get limited vaccinations.

No wormers, no flea, tick or Heartworm.
And limited Rabies.

Titer -- Titer -- Titer .

Honeys Owners · Jan 11, 2019

dermich said:
I'm with you Frenchie Girl, all the things vets want to give our fur babies puts a lot of stress on their liver.
A 8 lb Frenchie gets the same amount of vaccinations as a 40 lb German shepherd?
I give vaccinosis to my girls when they get limited vaccinations.

No wormers, no flea, tick or Heartworm.
And limited Rabies.

Titer -- Titer -- Titer .

Sorry to hear about your dog's liver disease.

I agree- minimize chemicals. Best way to reduce heartworm medication and still give it would be to give milbemycin at 1/5 the normal dose, which works out to be 0.05 mg per pound of body weight (0.1 mg per kg). This was approved by FDA but Novartis chose not to market the product they developed that they called "Safeheart" , so you would have to buy a product like "Interceptor" and calculate the dose yourself. Just dose it every 6 weeks, and only from June to November if you are in a cold region. At this dose you won't be killing hookworms, whipworms etc so you should get your dog tested for worms at their checkup.

After the core vaccine is given at 1 yr of age just do titres for the antibodies once in the future and then your dog shouldn't need the core vaccine again if the titres are good.

For ticks and fleas- some people are ok with spraying your dog with essential oils. I put K9 Advantix II liquid on my dog from April-November since Toronto is pretty heavily infested with ticks.