Housebreaking

[Mavis]

I used to use dog food advisor website but until I seen the garbage foods 5 stars I stopped using the website and now that I have taken all 3 the dog nutrition courses, I just evaluate the pet foods myself and not on dog food advisor, especially that the garbage foods are getting 5 stars.
Most dog foods are for marketing NOT for the health of the dog eating the food, same with vet foods, ALL marketing and causing other health issues.
Dogs eating those foods are eating out of a garbage can basically, no wonder so many dogs have SO many Health issues!!


Yes Rusty was always fed 1 cup a day as a puppy and now still only eats 1 cup daily.

Yes that’s good he gets a bedtime snack and a mid day snack. A total of 1 cup daily is average for them even as adults(of course if they are bigger they get more) , but Rusty being fairly active and being 3 years old at 22 pounds, he still gets 1 cup total daily.

If his parents are around 22-23 pounds he should not be bigger then that.

Rusty’s mom was 19 pounds and his dad was 28 pounds, and Rusty is 22 pounds!

Even when Rusty was young like Jelly, we basically Feed the amount for a 22 lb dog(most people do this) and he growed good, and is at ideal weight.

But be careful as pet food companies recommend more for marketing purposes on the recommended feeding guidelines on the bag(they try to make people feed more of their food).

As long as the calorie content of the new food is about the same as his current food, just continue to feed 1 cup a day. If his parents are 22-23 pounds, he should be the same, and so you only need to feed the 1 cup a day for him.

They will gain weight on ‘low quality food’,
My other dog(not Rusty) was put on vet food for the kidney disease and she was fed the exact same amount as the other food she was eating, she gained 12 pounds because of the ‘fillers’. Now she is maintaining all her weight on this food she is on.

Also Rusty was put on RC vet food, for a potential food allergy(this was before I took the courses to find those foods are garbage), since he was on that for ONLY 8 weeks (this was 2 years ago) , that caused his vomiting due to empty stomach and now requiring bedtime snack @10:30 before bed. This was NEVER a issue until he was put on the RC 2 years ago for 8 weeks. The health issue it caused is still here, but thankfully it’s manageable with a snack before bed and breakfast early.

Health issues can be prevented and healed thru good diet. His health has improved greatly and he has been on this food for 3 weeks.

High carbs/fillers=Inflammation and disease!
Dry food(except the good quality kibbles I listed)=dehydration, Urine crystals/stones, kidney and liver issues, dental disease, allergies, inflammation diseases(arthritis and others).
Carbs=tumours and cancers(Rusty did have an eyelid tumour removed a year ago, things like this don’t happen overnight and 95% of health issues can be prevented thru diet!)

Dogs and cats have NO requirements for carbs at all, most of the time it just causes health issues.

Of course their is good dry foods(which I listed for you in the other reply), but most kibbles and canned cause so many health issues.

After the puppy shots, they are protected for life and no longer requires yearly or every 3 year vaccinations. I didn’t know this and Rusty ended up with SO bad skin allergies at the injection site-that required surgery for skin biopsy!

My 2 other dogs that have Kidney disease(not Rusty)- they are on a low phosphorus raw diet(low carb) and bloodwork came back amazing-everything in normal range, the vets are shocked how well they are doing!

Rusty is healthier on Raised Right low carb food than he was on any kibble(haven’t tried raw diet for him yet).

But no matter what kibble out of the ‘good’ food kibbles I listed in the last reply, you choose and make sure you give variety to prevent him from developing food allergies from eating the same thing every day.

Hopefully you can get Jelly on a better food soon!
I’m always happy to help!
Keep us updated!

Thank you! Fascinating about the food. I didn't know they had a three-course program on pet nutrition. I trust your assessment more than Dog Food Advisor! It's sad that you can't trust anything anymore.

My husband equates feeding with love. I know Jelly is getting more than a cup a day with the snacks and I asked John to give him about 1/3 cup twice a day. With the 2-3 snacks he/they get, he will be at a cup a day or slightly more.

You had mentioned about not feeding the same food every day. For the Raised Right food, do you purchase the the beef and turkey and alternate days? Do you use any other flavors. I know chicken can be a hot protein, so would I be confined to just the beef and turkey? Is that enough to alternate? It looks like in the puppy formula, the only kinds available are turkey, beef and chicken.

Lastly, for dog licensing here, I don't think I can get away without a rabies booster every three years. So, you don't vaccinate against anything after their puppy immunizations have been completed? What do you use for flea/tick/heartworm prevention? They also have a Lyme disease immunization, but we have a fenced yard here and don't have deer, so I don't think I am going to do that. Vet also mentioned another vaccination, but I don't remember what it was for. Because of the insurance not going into effect until 4/28, we only had the bare minimum performed at our last visit. We go back on 5/4/22 for one more required shot administered by a tech, and then again on 5/18/22 for his last of the required shots and a thorough well visit. I will ask her that time about not doing the rabies going forward or anything else. I don't know, but I suspect she is not going to be on board with that.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Thank you! Fascinating about the food. I didn't know they had a three-course program on pet nutrition. I trust your assessment more than Dog Food Advisor! It's sad that you can't trust anything anymore.

My husband equates feeding with love. I know Jelly is getting more than a cup a day with the snacks and I asked John to give him about 1/3 cup twice a day. With the 2-3 snacks he/they get, he will be at a cup a day or slightly more.

You had mentioned about not feeding the same food every day. For the Raised Right food, do you purchase the the beef and turkey and alternate days? Do you use any other flavors. I know chicken can be a hot protein, so would I be confined to just the beef and turkey? Is that enough to alternate? It looks like in the puppy formula, the only kinds available are turkey, beef and chicken.

Lastly, for dog licensing here, I don't think I can get away without a rabies booster every three years. So, you don't vaccinate against anything after their puppy immunizations have been completed? What do you use for flea/tick/heartworm prevention? They also have a Lyme disease immunization, but we have a fenced yard here and don't have deer, so I don't think I am going to do that. Vet also mentioned another vaccination, but I don't remember what it was for. Because of the insurance not going into effect until 4/28, we only had the bare minimum performed at our last visit. We go back on 5/4/22 for one more required shot administered by a tech, and then again on 5/18/22 for his last of the required shots and a thorough well visit. I will ask her that time about not doing the rabies going forward or anything else. I don't know, but I suspect she is not going to be on board with that.

For the rotational feeding,
It comes in Chicken, Pork, Beef, and Turkey.
The ‘puppy’ formulas I’m not sure if they come in pork or not. But you can rotate thru the puppy formulas and all the adult(even when your avoiding chicken, you still giving lots of variety). The only difference between the puppy and adult is 1% fat difference in most foods. So it’s good to use adult formulas too when rotating.

For Rusty, he is allergic to chicken and pork, so I am rotating the beef and Turkey.
1 day is all Beef, the next day is all Turkey, and the following day is beef.

So since Rusty only gets 1 cup of raised right (1/2 package daily), I put his daily amount into his 3 meals he gets and put a day portion into fridge and label what protein it is. And I do 4 days at a time(so 1 Turkey package, and 1 beef package).

Raised Right is good in the fridge for 6 days.
If you wanted to do it like finish 1 protein package(which is 2 days for jelly), then open a different protein package for the next 2 days and continue with that.
As long as he isn’t eating the same thing every day for weeks to months and even years! That’s how they develop allergies in the first place.

If you are wanting to do 1 meal a high quality kibble(I listed some very good ones), and the other meal is Raised Right for example, your giving variety thru the different proteins options in the kibble(Carna 4 kibble has Goat, Lamb, Venison, Duck, Chicken, herring for protein options for example which is good to rotate thru all). When people feed raw or lightly cooked, and they go away or camping, this is the kibble they buy cause it’s very close to the raw or lightly cooked.
This is nuggets basically but is considered kibble, the nuggets are from minimal processing, it’s also oven baked.

Orijen kibbles have a variety of protein options too. Their kibble is 20% carbs which is very low for a kibble.

Most Kibble needs a minimum of 30-60% carb/starch. So Orijen is the lowest carb kibble available.

You can even rotate thru Orijen and Carna 4 for variety in kibble and continue with 1 meal raised right or raw(some people don’t want to feed raw and that’s ok, that’s why I mentioned Raised Right as it’s really good !)

Carna 4 is also for all life stages too, and Orijen adult formulas have the variety too.
Most puppy formulas are poultry based in kibble.

But when rotating be sure to keep note of if he doesn’t like certain proteins. And if for any reason he gets itchy or any symptoms of allergy just make note of that so you know to stay away from it going forward.

So to start, try beef for 2 weeks, then try pork for 2 weeks(you can give variety once you know he can have beef, and rotate beef and pork until you know he can have Turkey added in). Then if doing kibble for 1/2 his daily food amount, try a different protein(lamb formula or a fish) AFTER you know which proteins he can have and which ones he likes best on the raised right food. Or if you decided to try goat Carna 4 after you know he can have all the flavours(except chicken) in raised Right, try the goat kibble and see how he likes it and see if he does ok with that protein for 2 weeks(since that will be the only thing new cause if you know what he can have for proteins in Raised Right, then the only new thing in his diet to be introduced is the protein of the kibble for 1 meal a day. And continue trying the different proteins(1 new protein at a time for 2 weeks). This will prevent food allergies and picky eater.

For the vaccines:
Rusty had his puppy shots, then the next year I was told by the vet he needed boosters(kennel cough, rabies, lepto, and a couple others)-I didn’t know the dangers until after I read a article and Rusty was SO sick! Once the puppy shots are in them their protected for life. Rusty was given the yearly booster and for 2 weeks after that he was SO sick, then they have him Benadryl and said he had a reaction to the shots and the Benadryl made him 5x worse! He was at the vet EVERY day for a week because the shots made him SO sick!!

I then realized when I read articles about it on the dangers, and have declined them since(Rusty was 1 year only when he got the yearly boosters-which was 2 years ago!)- the yearly shots after the puppy shots are only 50% chance of it being effective. I didn’t know it can cause disease and immune issues by overwhelming the immune system.

Rusty had his rabies shot(which he was 6 months old-this was 2.5 years ago and I didn’t know the dangers then)- his neck turned into a lump where they gave the shot- fur loss and turned black and it was hard as a rock! I knew it was from the shot the day before- still 1 year later it was still there and he has skin allergies very bad since the shot- next thing was surgery for a skin biopsy to tell us it wasn’t something extremely serious which is now the allergies I’m dealing with still 2.5 years later! Atopic dermatitis was a common side effect of the rabies shot(I read this in many articles). But some places require rabies vaccine.

The flea and tick prevention and heartworm prevention is not needed usually.
I was given Nexguard by the vet to give to Rusty and that’s a flea tick prevention that doesnt actually get rid of fleas, but that caused Rusty to have Head tremors(it apparently is a common side effect of these products as well as other neurological issues).
I don’t use flea and tick prevention for Rusty or heartworm prevention.
They just need a good immune system, if you do decide to give him vaccines later on in life, there is a product you can give that reduces side effect risks(Adored Beast-Anti Vaccinosis product).

If there is lots of ticks and fleas in your area there is a natural shampoo and spray version(the shampoo you bath with and if you don’t want to use a shampoo, you can use a spray instead), the brand that makes it is called Kin and Kind- the outdoor shield I think it’s called(the green bottle).

If your looking for some articles, Google:
Dogs naturally magazine

They have so many articles and are very useful!
That’s where I seen the vaccine side effects(just got to the search and type in vaccines) and the articles will come up.

They have articles on nutrition too(mycotoxins, glyphosate and others in kibble). Allergy articles, and flea and tick and heartworm articles too that I think will help you!

Holistic vets and regular vets write most of their articles.

I did my 3 nutrition courses thru them too.

Those photos of Jelly are SO adorable!!!
He is SO cute!!!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Here is a article for heartworm I just seen on the dogs naturally magazine website for articles.
I took a screenshot so you can see what it looks like, for when you Google it.

The search area is where you can search vaccines and other stuff including nutrition

 

[Mavis]

For the rotational feeding,
It comes in Chicken, Pork, Beef, and Turkey.
The ‘puppy’ formulas I’m not sure if they come in pork or not. But you can rotate thru the puppy formulas and all the adult(even when your avoiding chicken, you still giving lots of variety). The only difference between the puppy and adult is 1% fat difference in most foods. So it’s good to use adult formulas too when rotating.

For Rusty, he is allergic to chicken and pork, so I am rotating the beef and Turkey.
1 day is all Beef, the next day is all Turkey, and the following day is beef.

So since Rusty only gets 1 cup of raised right (1/2 package daily), I put his daily amount into his 3 meals he gets and put a day portion into fridge and label what protein it is. And I do 4 days at a time(so 1 Turkey package, and 1 beef package).

Raised Right is good in the fridge for 6 days.
If you wanted to do it like finish 1 protein package(which is 2 days for jelly), then open a different protein package for the next 2 days and continue with that.
As long as he isn’t eating the same thing every day for weeks to months and even years! That’s how they develop allergies in the first place.

If you are wanting to do 1 meal a high quality kibble(I listed some very good ones), and the other meal is Raised Right for example, your giving variety thru the different proteins options in the kibble(Carna 4 kibble has Goat, Lamb, Venison, Duck, Chicken, herring for protein options for example which is good to rotate thru all). When people feed raw or lightly cooked, and they go away or camping, this is the kibble they buy cause it’s very close to the raw or lightly cooked.
This is nuggets basically but is considered kibble, the nuggets are from minimal processing, it’s also oven baked.

Orijen kibbles have a variety of protein options too. Their kibble is 20% carbs which is very low for a kibble.

Most Kibble needs a minimum of 30-60% carb/starch. So Orijen is the lowest carb kibble available.

You can even rotate thru Orijen and Carna 4 for variety in kibble and continue with 1 meal raised right or raw(some people don’t want to feed raw and that’s ok, that’s why I mentioned Raised Right as it’s really good !)

Carna 4 is also for all life stages too, and Orijen adult formulas have the variety too.
Most puppy formulas are poultry based in kibble.

But when rotating be sure to keep note of if he doesn’t like certain proteins. And if for any reason he gets itchy or any symptoms of allergy just make note of that so you know to stay away from it going forward.

So to start, try beef for 2 weeks, then try pork for 2 weeks(you can give variety once you know he can have beef, and rotate beef and pork until you know he can have Turkey added in). Then if doing kibble for 1/2 his daily food amount, try a different protein(lamb formula or a fish) AFTER you know which proteins he can have and which ones he likes best on the raised right food. Or if you decided to try goat Carna 4 after you know he can have all the flavours(except chicken) in raised Right, try the goat kibble and see how he likes it and see if he does ok with that protein for 2 weeks(since that will be the only thing new cause if you know what he can have for proteins in Raised Right, then the only new thing in his diet to be introduced is the protein of the kibble for 1 meal a day. And continue trying the different proteins(1 new protein at a time for 2 weeks). This will prevent food allergies and picky eater.

For the vaccines:
Rusty had his puppy shots, then the next year I was told by the vet he needed boosters(kennel cough, rabies, lepto, and a couple others)-I didn’t know the dangers until after I read a article and Rusty was SO sick! Once the puppy shots are in them their protected for life. Rusty was given the yearly booster and for 2 weeks after that he was SO sick, then they have him Benadryl and said he had a reaction to the shots and the Benadryl made him 5x worse! He was at the vet EVERY day for a week because the shots made him SO sick!!

I then realized when I read articles about it on the dangers, and have declined them since(Rusty was 1 year only when he got the yearly boosters-which was 2 years ago!)- the yearly shots after the puppy shots are only 50% chance of it being effective. I didn’t know it can cause disease and immune issues by overwhelming the immune system.

Rusty had his rabies shot(which he was 6 months old-this was 2.5 years ago and I didn’t know the dangers then)- his neck turned into a lump where they gave the shot- fur loss and turned black and it was hard as a rock! I knew it was from the shot the day before- still 1 year later it was still there and he has skin allergies very bad since the shot- next thing was surgery for a skin biopsy to tell us it wasn’t something extremely serious which is now the allergies I’m dealing with still 2.5 years later! Atopic dermatitis was a common side effect of the rabies shot(I read this in many articles). But some places require rabies vaccine.

The flea and tick prevention and heartworm prevention is not needed usually.
I was given Nexguard by the vet to give to Rusty and that’s a flea tick prevention that doesnt actually get rid of fleas, but that caused Rusty to have Head tremors(it apparently is a common side effect of these products as well as other neurological issues).
I don’t use flea and tick prevention for Rusty or heartworm prevention.
They just need a good immune system, if you do decide to give him vaccines later on in life, there is a product you can give that reduces side effect risks(Adored Beast-Anti Vaccinosis product).

If there is lots of ticks and fleas in your area there is a natural shampoo and spray version(the shampoo you bath with and if you don’t want to use a shampoo, you can use a spray instead), the brand that makes it is called Kin and Kind- the outdoor shield I think it’s called(the green bottle).

If your looking for some articles, Google:
Dogs naturally magazine

They have so many articles and are very useful!
That’s where I seen the vaccine side effects(just got to the search and type in vaccines) and the articles will come up.

They have articles on nutrition too(mycotoxins, glyphosate and others in kibble). Allergy articles, and flea and tick and heartworm articles too that I think will help you!.

Holistic vets and regular vets write most of their articles.

I did my 3 nutrition courses thru them too.

Those photos of Jelly are SO adorable!!!
He is SO cute!!!

Thank you so much!

Wow, that is really scary about Rusty and his immunizations. The other shot the vet mentioned was for lepto, although I think it's optional. Again, I don't know if rabies vaccinations are mandatory here. Somehow, I don't doubt it. I think it's a requirement for a dog to be seen by the vet or staff. I will inquire when we go again.

I'll have to read up about the heartworm. It's become so standard for all dogs, that I'm sure the vet is not going to be on board with not putting him on that. Ugh; tough decisions. I didn't have Bambi on it because when she was out, which wasn't for long, she preferred the deck to the grass. Petey hasn't been on it because he just doesn't seem bothered by mosquitos and he wasn't out long, either. Jelly and Petey enjoy playing so much that they are out much longer than any of our other dogs (me or my husband are always with them).

Have to report on our bell training. I started on Saturday, using Jelly's paw to ring the bell, buzz words, and then out. Yesterday (Monday), he went over to the door three different times and rang the bell!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it! Only issue is that he used it to be let outside and not to pee or poop. I had him out way too long without him doing anything (10-15 minutes), which just reinforced going out for play time. If/when he rings the bell today, I will let him out for five minutes at most and if he doesn't go, bring him back in the house. Only issue is he likes to roam/run all over the yard, and it's a decent size. Should I put him on a retractible leash?

Lastly, do you think he looks long for a frenchie? Not the best pictures to assess, but he seems long to me. I just hope he has a compact little body like a frenchie should. I did think his dad looked longer than normal.

 

[Mavis]

Okay, so I just ordered 16 bags of Raised Right food adult formula (6 beef, 5 pork, 5 turkey). I'm glad to be getting Jelly off of Pro Plan. I hope he likes it.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Thank you so much!

Wow, that is really scary about Rusty and his immunizations. The other shot the vet mentioned was for lepto, although I think it's optional. Again, I don't know if rabies vaccinations are mandatory here. Somehow, I don't doubt it. I think it's a requirement for a dog to be seen by the vet or staff. I will inquire when we go again.

I'll have to read up about the heartworm. It's become so standard for all dogs, that I'm sure the vet is not going to be on board with not putting him on that. Ugh; tough decisions. I didn't have Bambi on it because when she was out, which wasn't for long, she preferred the deck to the grass. Petey hasn't been on it because he just doesn't seem bothered by mosquitos and he wasn't out long, either. Jelly and Petey enjoy playing so much that they are out much longer than any of our other dogs (me or my husband are always with them).

Have to report on our bell training. I started on Saturday, using Jelly's paw to ring the bell, buzz words, and then out. Yesterday (Monday), he went over to the door three different times and rang the bell!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it! Only issue is that he used it to be let outside and not to pee or poop. I had him out way too long without him doing anything (10-15 minutes), which just reinforced going out for play time. If/when he rings the bell today, I will let him out for five minutes at most and if he doesn't go, bring him back in the house. Only issue is he likes to roam/run all over the yard, and it's a decent size. Should I put him on a retractible leash?

Lastly, do you think he looks long for a frenchie? Not the best pictures to assess, but he seems long to me. I just hope he has a compact little body like a frenchie should. I did think his dad looked longer than normal.

For heartworm, I have had many dogs other than the current 3, non of my dogs I have ever owned were ever told by vet to use heartworm meds on them or any flea and tick stuff other than Rusty when he was a pup.
You will find the information on the articles very interesting, it actually tells you preventative without using vet stuff.

I will attach a screenshot of the vaccine article where it shows the name of the article(this one is also written by a vet).
It’s on dogs naturally magazine.

Wow that’s awesome he went over to the door and rang the bell!!!!! As long as he knows when he rings the bell, he gets let outside that’s the main thing. If you think it’s easier for you to put him on a long leash to make him not race around the yard then that’s good too, it will teach him too I think.

From the photos, he doesn’t look that long to me, I have seen a few Frenchies that are longer than him full grown. Rusty’s mom was actually longer than Jelly, and still was a full Frenchie, Rusty is not long I don’t think. But I wouldn’t worry about Jelly with the length as they can be even longer than that.


Keep in mind the screenshots of the vaccine info are NOT for puppy shots, the side effects and everything are for ‘yearly and every 3 years’. You should read he articles!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Okay, so I just ordered 16 bags of Raised Right food adult formula (6 beef, 5 pork, 5 turkey). I'm glad to be getting Jelly off of Pro Plan. I hope he likes it.

Awesome, I hope he enjoys it! It’s good to get him off the pro plan!

I’m sure he will love the variety and the healthy food!

Keep us updated

 

[Mavis]

For heartworm, I have had many dogs other than the current 3, non of my dogs I have ever owned were ever told by vet to use heartworm meds on them or any flea and tick stuff other than Rusty when he was a pup.
You will find the information on the articles very interesting, it actually tells you preventative without using vet stuff.

I will attach a screenshot of the vaccine article where it shows the name of the article(this one is also written by a vet).
It’s on dogs naturally magazine.

Wow that’s awesome he went over to the door and rang the bell!!!!! As long as he knows when he rings the bell, he gets let outside that’s the main thing. If you think it’s easier for you to put him on a long leash to make him not race around the yard then that’s good too, it will teach him too I think.

From the photos, he doesn’t look that long to me, I have seen a few Frenchies that are longer than him full grown. Rusty’s mom was actually longer than Jelly, and still was a full Frenchie, Rusty is not long I don’t think. But I wouldn’t worry about Jelly with the length as they can be even longer than that.


Keep in mind the screenshots of the vaccine info are NOT for puppy shots, the side effects and everything are for ‘yearly and every 3 years’. You should read he articles!
View attachment 15840

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I read the information that is visible on here, however, I will have to look up the article and read the whole thing. My concern is that in the U.S. - and especially New York - we are regulated out the ying yang for everything. Again, I will inquire when we go to the vet on May 18 (May 4 is just seeing the vet tech).

Just subscribed to the DogsNaturallyMagazine. Is that where you took the nutrition course?

 

[Mavis]

I just read the article What Every Vet (and Dog Owner) Should Know About Dog Vaccines. I am pretty convinced that over vaccinating may have been what was wrong with Bambi, our frenchie who just passed in March. She had so many issues, it was horrible, and the vet had no solution for it. She had severe alopecia and was hairless on her belly, chest, legs and fanny. Her ears fell two years ago. She would have frequent pustules all over her back (two of which she had removed before we knew what they were). Her skin was flaky and she had begun to develop dark spots on her head. Her ears tips were furless, black and leathery, as was her fanny. She was on the Brothers Bland Diet Advanced Allergy food, which I thought was good. We had also tried Acana, Orijen, etc., but none of them seemed to make a difference. Years ago, we tried Apoquel, but that didn't do anything to relieve her allergies. She was the perfect dog and a complete angel. I thought she was the sweetest looking frenchie.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I read the information that is visible on here, however, I will have to look up the article and read the whole thing. My concern is that in the U.S. - and especially New York - we are regulated out the ying yang for everything. Again, I will inquire when we go to the vet on May 18 (May 4 is just seeing the vet tech).

Just subscribed to the DogsNaturallyMagazine. Is that where you took the nutrition course?

Yes I put the screenshot so you would be able to find the correct article!

I am subscribed to their mailing list too as it’s very interesting articles and all done by holistic and regular vets.

Yes I did all 3 of their dog nutrition courses(kibble, raw diet, and advanced), just to know what dogs actually need and how it links to health issues we see.
Also have done lots of research for the health issues and treatments.

I’m not sure if Rabies is required in US, but I know that once the puppy shots are in them, no boosters are needed, and usually do harm and no good.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I read the information that is visible on here, however, I will have to look up the article and read the whole thing. My concern is that in the U.S. - and especially New York - we are regulated out the ying yang for everything. Again, I will inquire when we go to the vet on May 18 (May 4 is just seeing the vet tech).

Just subscribed to the DogsNaturallyMagazine. Is that where you took the nutrition course?

Oh and they have a heartworm article too that would be helpful to you too!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I just read the article What Every Vet (and Dog Owner) Should Know About Dog Vaccines. I am pretty convinced that over vaccinating may have been what was wrong with Bambi, our frenchie who just passed in March. She had so many issues, it was horrible, and the vet had no solution for it. She had severe alopecia and was hairless on her belly, chest, legs and fanny. Her ears fell two years ago. She would have frequent pustules all over her back (two of which she had removed before we knew what they were). Her skin was flaky and she had begun to develop dark spots on her head. Her ears tips were furless, black and leathery, as was her fanny. She was on the Brothers Bland Diet Advanced Allergy food, which I thought was good. We had also tried Acana, Orijen, etc., but none of them seemed to make a difference. Years ago, we tried Apoquel, but that didn't do anything to relieve her allergies. She was the perfect dog and a complete angel. I thought she was the sweetest looking frenchie.

So sorry for your loss!
That is so sad, that little things like this can cause SO many health issues in dogs and it’s absolutely not necessary other than the puppy shots, some places might require Rabies shot but other than that no vet should be pushing for the yearly or 3 yearly shots!

 

[Mavis]

So sorry for your loss!
That is so sad, that little things like this can cause SO many health issues in dogs and it’s absolutely not necessary other than the puppy shots, some places might require Rabies shot but other than that no vet should be pushing for the yearly or 3 yearly shots!

I inquired at my vet about titer testing. They are one of the largest vets in Rochester, NY, a large metropolitan area. They do not offer it nor do any of the other vets I called. My vet inquired why I wanted to know about titer testing. I told them that I wished to cease all vaccinations after the necessary puppy series. Here is their response:


Hello,

I received your email about forgoing additional vaccines for JellyBear after finishing the puppy series. I want to make sure you have all of the information before making this decision, as it is not something that we recommend, medically speaking.

1. A Rabies titer does not replace proof of Rabies vaccine. Unless there is a medical exemption given for a valid medical reason to not receive a Rabies vaccine, all dogs and cats over the age of 12 weeks are legally required to be up to date on this vaccine.

2. Vaccine titers do not prove/confirm immunity or protection.

3. Each main component has its own titer. Distemper and Parvo are tested separately, and it is $62.50 for each.

4. The Rabies vaccine titer is $210.

5. Young dogs are more susceptible to the diseases that we are protecting them from with the distemper/parvo vaccine. I would strongly recommend that he at least receives these vaccines through middle age before discontinuing.

6. The Rabies vaccine should never be discontinued (except for rare cases where medical reasons prevent vaccination, as mentioned above). There is no treatment for Rabies and it is 100% fatal. If he were to be exposed, there may be forced quarantines that you would be responsible for paying for. If he were to bite somebody, in a worst case scenario, there may be forced euthanasia for Rabies testing (which can only be done on the brain tissue).

JellyBear is scheduled to receive the Lepto vaccine in 2 weeks, and then his final puppy distemper/parvo and Rabies in 4 weeks. The Lepto vaccine will need to be boosted 4 weeks after the first, and this is not yet scheduled.

Lepto, being a bacterial vaccine, does not provide long lasting immunity like the Rabies and distemper. That is why it is always a yearly vaccine. Yearly vaccination is strongly recommended for this disease, especially since Lepto can be transmitted to people.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Dr. XXX

Please tell me your opinion. I suspected that rabies was required. Thank you.

 

[Mavis]

Yes I put the screenshot so you would be able to find the correct article!

I am subscribed to their mailing list too as it’s very interesting articles and all done by holistic and regular vets.

Yes I did all 3 of their dog nutrition courses(kibble, raw diet, and advanced), just to know what dogs actually need and how it links to health issues we see.
Also have done lots of research for the health issues and treatments.

I’m not sure if Rabies is required in US, but I know that once the puppy shots are in them, no boosters are needed, and usually do harm and no good.

God bless. I did subscribe and read the entire article about vaccinations. I sent my vet a note about not wanting to vaccinate after the puppy series and got a very cautionary response. Of course, they don't support annual/three-year vaccinations. Rabies is required in NY, puppy and then every three years. I am going to "chip" Jelly but not "license." Licensing puts you on the state radar and then required the three-year rabies booster. All dogs in NY are required to be licensed. I don't know if owners do that or vets. If I can avoid it, I will.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

God bless. I did subscribe and read the entire article about vaccinations. I sent my vet a note about not wanting to vaccinate after the puppy series and got a very cautionary response. Of course, they don't support annual/three-year vaccinations. Rabies is required in NY, puppy and then every three years. I am going to "chip" Jelly but not "license." Licensing puts you on the state radar and then required the three-year rabies booster. All dogs in NY are required to be licensed. I don't know if owners do that or vets. If I can avoid it, I will.

Dogs naturally has articles on titer testing information(once a titer test comes back good from after the last puppy shots, and the titer shows their good then NO more are needed of more titers or shots).
Rabies might be required in different places, I know if I had to go down to US from Canada, Rusty would need up to date proof of rabies shot.

Vaccines are easy money grab for vets, cause they can mark up lots on them and they just recommend it.
My 2 other dogs have been due for yearly shots for 2 years and have been to vet several times since then and they haven’t asked about doing their vaccines, and if they do I would just say ‘no thank you’.

I didn’t know that about dog license and rabies shots, I have all 3 of my dogs have dog licenses and are microchipped and have ‘name tags’ on them too, only for safety reasons. But non of them are up to date on any of the shots or rabies.

License is required here too, I don’t see many dogs here with those tags though.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I inquired at my vet about titer testing. They are one of the largest vets in Rochester, NY, a large metropolitan area. They do not offer it nor do any of the other vets I called. My vet inquired why I wanted to know about titer testing. I told them that I wished to cease all vaccinations after the necessary puppy series. Here is their response:


Hello,

I received your email about forgoing additional vaccines for JellyBear after finishing the puppy series. I want to make sure you have all of the information before making this decision, as it is not something that we recommend, medically speaking.

1. A Rabies titer does not replace proof of Rabies vaccine. Unless there is a medical exemption given for a valid medical reason to not receive a Rabies vaccine, all dogs and cats over the age of 12 weeks are legally required to be up to date on this vaccine.

2. Vaccine titers do not prove/confirm immunity or protection.

3. Each main component has its own titer. Distemper and Parvo are tested separately, and it is $62.50 for each.

4. The Rabies vaccine titer is $210.

5. Young dogs are more susceptible to the diseases that we are protecting them from with the distemper/parvo vaccine. I would strongly recommend that he at least receives these vaccines through middle age before discontinuing.

6. The Rabies vaccine should never be discontinued (except for rare cases where medical reasons prevent vaccination, as mentioned above). There is no treatment for Rabies and it is 100% fatal. If he were to be exposed, there may be forced quarantines that you would be responsible for paying for. If he were to bite somebody, in a worst case scenario, there may be forced euthanasia for Rabies testing (which can only be done on the brain tissue).

JellyBear is scheduled to receive the Lepto vaccine in 2 weeks, and then his final puppy distemper/parvo and Rabies in 4 weeks. The Lepto vaccine will need to be boosted 4 weeks after the first, and this is not yet scheduled.

Lepto, being a bacterial vaccine, does not provide long lasting immunity like the Rabies and distemper. That is why it is always a yearly vaccine. Yearly vaccination is strongly recommended for this disease, especially since Lepto can be transmitted to people.

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

Dr. XXX

Please tell me your opinion. I suspected that rabies was required. Thank you.

1: even if it’s required for rabies shot, how do they know if you say ‘he had a bad reaction to it and it’s a medical reason’. That’s what I would do, but if not and you are required to give 1 then for the next time say he had a ‘bad reaction and for medical reasons you can’t risk it with giving him another rabies shot’.

2: YES titers PROVE immunity and protection to the virus, this is why titers are here to see if the vaccine worked and that’s the only way to truly know if they are immune to the virus.
That response is wrong! That’s an excuse to give their shots that they don’t need, and a reason to tell clients’ come in for the yearly appointment for the shot’. Vets write those articles on dogs naturally.
I know a vet that I dog sit for(this is a different vet at a different clinic-not the vet clinic I go to), and she knows I don’t want to vaccinate the dogs anymore as they had their puppy shots. She said just get a titer test which is a blood test and then you don’t have to vaccinate as long as the titer test comes back as they are immune to the disease!

3: some titer tests are for multiple, but I think rabies titer test is the only one that requires 1. Some places vary for prices.

4: that’s average price for the rabies titer, the other titer is for the others except rabies(it’s a all in one I think).

5: young dogs are developing their immune system still and yes they are more susceptible to health issues, but all their puppy shots are giving them all they need, others are extra that are only 50% of it might work, doesn’t do them any good to get other shots other than the puppy shots. Some people do the titer test 3-4 weeks after the last puppy shot and then no vaccines at all after that.
Kennel cough for example-study was done that as long as they had puppy shots they were protected but yearly kennel cough vaccines-they we’re more likely to get it and being more worse than the dogs with only puppy shots.
Puppy shots are al that they need and protect them for life, anything else is risky the health with no benefits.

6: OMG I can’t believe they are trying to scare you to continue rabies shot!
Again, puppy shots cover this. Also if it makes you more comfortable, get 1 shot if it’s absolutely needed but after that say ‘he had a terrible reaction and he can’t do that again’, that’s a medical reason(even if it’s not true), but that will help hopefully for them to not try to guilt you into it and scare you, that was true for Rusty and it’s been 2.5 years and no one asks us about wanting to give him the shot anymore as they put the note in his file. But your trying to protect Jelly from the harm of those unneeded shots, while continuing keeping his immune system strong since he had the puppy shots.

In 4 weeks all those shots you can let them give, then he is protected for LIFE!

Lepto they are protected thru the puppy shots, and does last the lifetime as well.

They are trying to scare you and make you give all these unnecessary shots that they don’t even tell you the harm they can do and that giving the other shots other than puppy ones, are only 50% chance it will work anyway and that it causes autoimmune issues, disease and so many health issues and many other immune sissies by stressing the immune system. It acts can cause the disease it’s supposed to prevent(the other shots after the puppy shots).

Hopefully that answers your questions?

So frustrating for things like these!


Keep us updated on Jelly and his new food I’m already happy to help!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

1: even if it’s required for rabies shot, how do they know if you say ‘he had a bad reaction to it and it’s a medical reason’. That’s what I would do, but if not and you are required to give 1 then for the next time say he had a ‘bad reaction and for medical reasons you can’t risk it with giving him another rabies shot’.

2: YES titers PROVE immunity and protection to the virus, this is why titers are here to see if the vaccine worked and that’s the only way to truly know if they are immune to the virus.
That response is wrong! That’s an excuse to give their shots that they don’t need, and a reason to tell clients’ come in for the yearly appointment for the shot’. Vets write those articles on dogs naturally.
I know a vet that I dog sit for(this is a different vet at a different clinic-not the vet clinic I go to), and she knows I don’t want to vaccinate the dogs anymore as they had their puppy shots. She said just get a titer test which is a blood test and then you don’t have to vaccinate as long as the titer test comes back as they are immune to the disease!

3: some titer tests are for multiple, but I think rabies titer test is the only one that requires 1. Some places vary for prices.

4: that’s average price for the rabies titer, the other titer is for the others except rabies(it’s a all in one I think).

5: young dogs are developing their immune system still and yes they are more susceptible to health issues, but all their puppy shots are giving them all they need, others are extra that are only 50% of it might work, doesn’t do them any good to get other shots other than the puppy shots. Some people do the titer test 3-4 weeks after the last puppy shot and then no vaccines at all after that.
Kennel cough for example-study was done that as long as they had puppy shots they were protected but yearly kennel cough vaccines-they we’re more likely to get it and being more worse than the dogs with only puppy shots.
Puppy shots are al that they need and protect them for life, anything else is risky the health with no benefits.

6: OMG I can’t believe they are trying to scare you to continue rabies shot!
Again, puppy shots cover this. Also if it makes you more comfortable, get 1 shot if it’s absolutely needed but after that say ‘he had a terrible reaction and he can’t do that again’, that’s a medical reason(even if it’s not true), but that will help hopefully for them to not try to guilt you into it and scare you, that was true for Rusty and it’s been 2.5 years and no one asks us about wanting to give him the shot anymore as they put the note in his file. But your trying to protect Jelly from the harm of those unneeded shots, while continuing keeping his immune system strong since he had the puppy shots.

In 4 weeks all those shots you can let them give, then he is protected for LIFE!

Lepto they are protected thru the puppy shots, and does last the lifetime as well.

They are trying to scare you and make you give all these unnecessary shots that they don’t even tell you the harm they can do and that giving the other shots other than puppy ones, are only 50% chance it will work anyway and that it causes autoimmune issues, disease and so many health issues and many other immune sissies by stressing the immune system. It acts can cause the disease it’s supposed to prevent(the other shots after the puppy shots).

Hopefully that answers your questions?

So frustrating for things like these!


Keep us updated on Jelly and his new food I’m already happy to help!

Whoops I meant to put at the end :
Keep us updated on Jelly and his new food and I’m ‘always’ happy to help (spell check put already happy to help).

 

[Mavis]

1: even if it’s required for rabies shot, how do they know if you say ‘he had a bad reaction to it and it’s a medical reason’. That’s what I would do, but if not and you are required to give 1 then for the next time say he had a ‘bad reaction and for medical reasons you can’t risk it with giving him another rabies shot’.

2: YES titers PROVE immunity and protection to the virus, this is why titers are here to see if the vaccine worked and that’s the only way to truly know if they are immune to the virus.
That response is wrong! That’s an excuse to give their shots that they don’t need, and a reason to tell clients’ come in for the yearly appointment for the shot’. Vets write those articles on dogs naturally.
I know a vet that I dog sit for(this is a different vet at a different clinic-not the vet clinic I go to), and she knows I don’t want to vaccinate the dogs anymore as they had their puppy shots. She said just get a titer test which is a blood test and then you don’t have to vaccinate as long as the titer test comes back as they are immune to the disease!

3: some titer tests are for multiple, but I think rabies titer test is the only one that requires 1. Some places vary for prices.

4: that’s average price for the rabies titer, the other titer is for the others except rabies(it’s a all in one I think).

5: young dogs are developing their immune system still and yes they are more susceptible to health issues, but all their puppy shots are giving them all they need, others are extra that are only 50% of it might work, doesn’t do them any good to get other shots other than the puppy shots. Some people do the titer test 3-4 weeks after the last puppy shot and then no vaccines at all after that.
Kennel cough for example-study was done that as long as they had puppy shots they were protected but yearly kennel cough vaccines-they we’re more likely to get it and being more worse than the dogs with only puppy shots.
Puppy shots are al that they need and protect them for life, anything else is risky the health with no benefits.

6: OMG I can’t believe they are trying to scare you to continue rabies shot!
Again, puppy shots cover this. Also if it makes you more comfortable, get 1 shot if it’s absolutely needed but after that say ‘he had a terrible reaction and he can’t do that again’, that’s a medical reason(even if it’s not true), but that will help hopefully for them to not try to guilt you into it and scare you, that was true for Rusty and it’s been 2.5 years and no one asks us about wanting to give him the shot anymore as they put the note in his file. But your trying to protect Jelly from the harm of those unneeded shots, while continuing keeping his immune system strong since he had the puppy shots.

In 4 weeks all those shots you can let them give, then he is protected for LIFE!

Lepto they are protected thru the puppy shots, and does last the lifetime as well.

They are trying to scare you and make you give all these unnecessary shots that they don’t even tell you the harm they can do and that giving the other shots other than puppy ones, are only 50% chance it will work anyway and that it causes autoimmune issues, disease and so many health issues and many other immune sissies by stressing the immune system. It acts can cause the disease it’s supposed to prevent(the other shots after the puppy shots).

Hopefully that answers your questions?

So frustrating for things like these!


Keep us updated on Jelly and his new food I’m already happy to help!

Thank you for your detailed response. I do believe the vets here believe in these annual vaccinations and that is what is pushed in veterinary school. They also don't believe in premium foods and tout the leading grocery store brand that Jelly is on currently (the Raised Right hasn't arrived yet). They also learn that in vet college. I think food is not a concentration in vet school. Eight years ago when I took Bambi in for a well visit after adopting her as a retired breeder (she had just had her third litter/c-section and spay), the vet scolded me for having her on the premium food we were feeding her. He gave me a lecture that he and all the staff at the vets' office fed their dogs this crap food that I am referring to and that it was sufficiently nutritional and adequate.

I will talk to the vet on May 18 when I see her again. She's going to give me a rash of you know what. Going forward, I specifically want to know if we can remain clients without annual vaccinations and request titers after a year. I'm concerned that we may not be able to bring Jelly in to the practice without annual vaccinations because they consider him a high-risk of transmission to the other dogs coming in to their facility. It's always something. I do think I am going to put Jelly on heartworm.

 

[2bullymama]

Her in PA, the only legally required shot is rabies… all others can be forced upon you. But, yes, your vet may decline you as a client if you do… they probably lose money from big farma by not meeting a quota. I’m very lucky with our vet, he rather we do them, but I said we prefer not to and he accepted it

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Thank you for your detailed response. I do believe the vets here believe in these annual vaccinations and that is what is pushed in veterinary school. They also don't believe in premium foods and tout the leading grocery store brand that Jelly is on currently (the Raised Right hasn't arrived yet). They also learn that in vet college. I think food is not a concentration in vet school. Eight years ago when I took Bambi in for a well visit after adopting her as a retired breeder (she had just had her third litter/c-section and spay), the vet scolded me for having her on the premium food we were feeding her. He gave me a lecture that he and all the staff at the vets' office fed their dogs this crap food that I am referring to and that it was sufficiently nutritional and adequate.

I will talk to the vet on May 18 when I see her again. She's going to give me a rash of you know what. Going forward, I specifically want to know if we can remain clients without annual vaccinations and request titers after a year. I'm concerned that we may not be able to bring Jelly in to the practice without annual vaccinations because they consider him a high-risk of transmission to the other dogs coming in to their facility. It's always something. I do think I am going to put Jelly on heartworm.

Yes thats true that they don’t learn much in school(3 vets have said this), and like any other person, they have to educate themselves like us and everyone else. I’m not knocking anyone, but it’s frustrating for us dog owners that just want the best for our dogs and we want them to live a long life. Vets are great for medical care for our dogs but not nutrition.

When my current oldest dog(not Rusty), was a pup, she was very sick, and we took her to a vet(this is not the vet we currently have), she said she needed ‘prescription digestion food’ and we paid for it and then called the breeder for her opinion, breeder said take that food back, it’s garbage all she needs is antibiotics. So we took the unopened bag back and said we have tales to breeder and have decided to not change her to this food. The lady at the front chewed us out saying “your taking the breeders advice over the vets advice, how could you! She isn’t gonna get better!” And made us feel horrible. We took her to a different clinic and said we wouldn’t go back to the other. This good vet was Amazing and Said she didn’t need prescription food and to put her on antibiotics for 2 days. Problem solved!
That same good Dr at the good clinic, we have been seeing her for 8 years now, but all vets will recommend prescription foods at some point for marketing, hypoallergenic, kidney food, and urinary food for Rusty having crystals(which was fixed thru diet and supplements and water), 1 year later still no crystals and he is on a good food and supplement for his urine still.


The information i gave you was to help you know what dogs need, it’s up to you as the owner of what shots he gets.
I certainly hope you don’t lose your vet/client relationship over a vaccines.


I used to work at a dog daycare where there was 50+ dogs at once. 98% of those dogs were only had the puppy shots and no other shots, there was lots of puppies, and Middle Ages and some older dogs. Before they are allowed in we ask to see the puppy shots, and most people said that’s all they did and showed the records I was there for 3 years, no dogs had any disease or viruses.

Did you read the heartworm article?
It’s up to you if what you want to do with Jelly and if you want to put him on heartworm.