Rusty- help please!!

[Mavis]

Rusty definitely is not a silent dog, even though he loves to cuddle, and be at my side and play, he barks a lot, which I’m trying to teach him to do less of, when he gets excited or nervous or scared of a person or other dog or he wants something he barks and he is very loud.

Same thing when he wants something he does that loud Frenchie scream! He is a vocal dog but very funny

I really like the fact that they like their crates and also the other dogs crates, so cute.

Well I don’t know if he loves the baths, he gives me dirty looks And then avoids goi g upstairs, once he is in he is fine and sometimes I think he enjoys being in the bath but he hates any water so he really isn’t loving the baths however when he is done in the bath he races around and feels good and when I say “did you have a bath, are you handsome?” He climbs on me and plays and licks my face. So it’s kind of get it over with and to get him in the bath, sometimes he waits at the tub, but very unusual lol!


Yes Rusty had his soft palate surgery and nostrils opened more last November.
The surgery was one of the best things I did for him, if he gets neutered for example while he is under anesthesia, ask them to do his nares, and if his soft palate needs to be done, do it while he is out!

I wouldn’t say it’s a major surgery but if he needs nares done same with palate getting it done is a big relief then having to worry about him falling over and something happen like Rusty almost did.
but it’s a relief knowing they come out with a great airway and you wouldn’t have to worry about something happening to him because he can’t breathe properly.

If you get the surgery done after he is 2 years old then the palate won’t grow back because the dog is done growing.

Jelly is likly snoring more cause as he grows his nostrils close more and his palate grows with him. If his nostrils are closed it will put more work for his palate to do.

It’s a little more recovery time(no playing for 3 weeks, that’s what the vet said for Rusty and the palate is usually healed by 3 weeks). We noticed immediately his breathing was way better.
And for the first 3 weeks after surgery he needs soft food while the throat heals(he is on RR anyway so it’s soft food only and no kibble during that time-thankfully Jelly is already on good soft food)

I can’t highly recommend that surgery enough for the palate and the nares.

I asked my vet practice (major one here) about nares and palate surgery. They do nares but not palate, at least that is what I remember them saying. I am so afraid Jelly will be in pain eating and uncomfortable. I agree, however, that it would be so beneficial for them going forward after the recovery period. I didn't know that the palate continues to grow until two.

Off the track, but have been meaning to ask you - what canned dog food do you recommend? We feed Petey a tablespoon in his kibble to make it more palatable. He gets Acana kibble. I want to feed him the best wet food. Thanks!

 

[lunaxgenesis]

How is he?? Hope all is well!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I asked my vet practice (major one here) about nares and palate surgery. They do nares but not palate, at least that is what I remember them saying. I am so afraid Jelly will be in pain eating and uncomfortable. I agree, however, that it would be so beneficial for them going forward after the recovery period. I didn't know that the palate continues to grow until two.

Off the track, but have been meaning to ask you - what canned dog food do you recommend? We feed Petey a tablespoon in his kibble to make it more palatable. He gets Acana kibble. I want to feed him the best wet food. Thanks!

You should check with a few vets and maybe like my vet, a board certified surgeon or someone who does this surgery on the palate to come to the regular clinic and do it?
That would be strange if no vet around you did it.

No they aren’t really in pain, a little sore while healing(even the neuter they are a little sore during recovery), they are in much more pain and uncomfortable when it’s too long and swollen blocking the airway and they can’t play which would be unhappy dog if they can’t play cause of struggle to breathe from too long palate).

Well the palate grows with them(especially when their head gets really big), but sometimes you can’t wait to do surgery if they are struggling to breathe, then get it done ASAP!
if the symptoms are very bad, recovery might be a bit worse than if they aren’t gasping for air but show the symptoms and aren’t struggling to breathe, that’s when surgery should be done before it gets bad.


Is Jelly still getting Orijen Kibble and RR??

I thought Petey was on the same kibble?

Canned food(these ones don’t have any synthetic vitamins-try to avoid synthetic vitamins if you can),
-Acana
-Orijen
-Natures Logic

-K9 Natural
-Weruva(has synthetic vitamins that are not in any of the above foods).

Acana or Orijen would be best for canned foods, but the natures logic is the next best if those are not available.

And if none of those are available, K9 Naturals then if that’s not available Weruva but that has synthetic vitamins in it, which I recommend avoiding but out of all the canned foods that have synthetic vitamins, that’s the decent option.

So hopefully you have Acana or Orijen canned food available to you????

Hopefully Jelly is still doing good on RR and the Orijen Kibble, does he still get his main meals of RR and kibble only for the snacks?? The good food is definitely the best way to prevent health issues and inflammation!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

How is he?? Hope all is well!

He goes to the neurologist on Monday, we aren’t sure exactly what it is other than a seizure.

I will update after the appointment

 

[Mavis]

You should check with a few vets and maybe like my vet, a board certified surgeon or someone who does this surgery on the palate to come to the regular clinic and do it?
That would be strange if no vet around you did it.

No they aren’t really in pain, a little sore while healing(even the neuter they are a little sore during recovery), they are in much more pain and uncomfortable when it’s too long and swollen blocking the airway and they can’t play which would be unhappy dog if they can’t play cause of struggle to breathe from too long palate).

Well the palate grows with them(especially when their head gets really big), but sometimes you can’t wait to do surgery if they are struggling to breathe, then get it done ASAP!
if the symptoms are very bad, recovery might be a bit worse than if they aren’t gasping for air but show the symptoms and aren’t struggling to breathe, that’s when surgery should be done before it gets bad.


Is Jelly still getting Orijen Kibble and RR??

I thought Petey was on the same kibble?

Canned food(these ones don’t have any synthetic vitamins-try to avoid synthetic vitamins if you can),
-Acana
-Orijen
-Natures Logic

-K9 Natural
-Weruva(has synthetic vitamins that are not in any of the above foods).

Acana or Orijen would be best for canned foods, but the natures logic is the next best if those are not available.

And if none of those are available, K9 Naturals then if that’s not available Weruva but that has synthetic vitamins in it, which I recommend avoiding but out of all the canned foods that have synthetic vitamins, that’s the decent option.

So hopefully you have Acana or Orijen canned food available to you????

Hopefully Jelly is still doing good on RR and the Orijen Kibble, does he still get his main meals of RR and kibble only for the snacks?? The good food is definitely the best way to prevent health issues and inflammation!

Petey is still on the Acana kibble and gets a little canned dog food mixed in with it. I will get some of the canned Acana and use that instead of the "premium" brand I thought we were giving him. Turns out Dog Food Advisor isn't always the best resource for information. Jelly is 1 c RR/day supplemented with a little of the Acana kibble because he is getting bigger (and snacks).

Yesterday I was so psyched!!!!!! For the first time, I noticed Jelly's waist is filling out and getting plumper!!! He's not fat, you can still see his ribs when he moves just right, however, he is definitely filling out. He will be six months in two days and weighs 15.2 lbs. I am so happy his body is changing. He was unnaturally long and skinny before.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Petey is still on the Acana kibble and gets a little canned dog food mixed in with it. I will get some of the canned Acana and use that instead of the "premium" brand I thought we were giving him. Turns out Dog Food Advisor isn't always the best resource for information. Jelly is 1 c RR/day supplemented with a little of the Acana kibble because he is getting bigger (and snacks).

Yesterday I was so psyched!!!!!! For the first time, I noticed Jelly's waist is filling out and getting plumper!!! He's not fat, you can still see his ribs when he moves just right, however, he is definitely filling out. He will be six months in two days and weighs 15.2 lbs. I am so happy his body is changing. He was unnaturally long and skinny before.

Hopefully the Acana kibble your getting isn’t the formula with 50% oats?

No dog food advisor is definitely not the best resource, it rates 5 stars even for the lowest kibbles.


Awesome, he looks like he is definitely gonna fill out More a little.
Glad he is getting wider and hopefully he stops getting longer, just get more compact hopefully.

Jelly looks good in the photo, so cute!

 

[Mavis]

Hopefully the Acana kibble your getting isn’t the formula with 50% oats?

I don't think so (?) but will check. Geez, you can't even trust Acana!

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I don't think so (?) but will check. Geez, you can't even trust Acana!

Well Acana has some good formulas, but they have a ‘Classics’ line(Classic Red, Wild Coast and a poultry version which is 1/2 oats), that’s why I recommend either the pork and squash, lamb and apple, duck and pear, and also the ranchlands and grasslands.

The formulas with oats have way more carbs and that’s why it’s cheaper than the other formulas

Orijen is only 20% carbs, but Acana is 31% carbs max(Acana Ranchlands and grasslands are 28% carbs).
All those formulas are good, just in case your looking for the lowest carb kibble if you can’t feed Orijen, Acana Ranchlands and Grasslands would be the next lowest carb, and the single protein(Lamb and apple for example) are still good.
The only formulas I don’t recommend is the ones with 50% oats(cause of the potential for allergies and inflammation).

Rusty especially is very allergic to oats and that’s a common allergy for Frenchies.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I don't think so (?) but will check. Geez, you can't even trust Acana!

Acana canned foods are all good and I don’t think they have canned foods with oats and grains.

 

[Mavis]

Well Acana has some good formulas, but they have a ‘Classics’ line(Classic Red, Wild Coast and a poultry version which is 1/2 oats), that’s why I recommend either the pork and squash, lamb and apple, duck and pear, and also the ranchlands and grasslands.

The formulas with oats have way more carbs and that’s why it’s cheaper than the other formulas

Orijen is only 20% carbs, but Acana is 31% carbs max(Acana Ranchlands and grasslands are 28% carbs).
All those formulas are good, just in case your looking for the lowest carb kibble if you can’t feed Orijen, Acana Ranchlands and Grasslands would be the next lowest carb, and the single protein(Lamb and apple for example) are still good.
The only formulas I don’t recommend is the ones with 50% oats(cause of the potential for allergies and inflammation).

Rusty especially is very allergic to oats and that’s a common allergy for Frenchies.

I'm losing my mind. I don't remember if the kibble is Acana or Orijen. I think we started on the latter and switched to Acana because I thought it was better (?). I iwll check.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I'm losing my mind. I don't remember if the kibble is Acana or Orijen. I think we started on the latter and switched to Acana because I thought it was better (?). I iwll check.

I remember you attaching a photo of Orijen Regional red because its the lowest carb kibble and I thought you said both jelly and Petey are doing well on it.

Orijen uses more meat and less carbs-good!

I’m not trying to confuse you, I’m trying to help you keep them healthy.

Both Orijen and Acana are good kibbles, I just don’t recommend the Acana formulas with 50% oats as that can trigger allergies.


Rusty goes to the neurologist tomorrow, i really hope it goes well

 

[Mavis]

I’m not trying to confuse you, I’m trying to help you keep them healthy.

Oh, I know, and I appreciate your information. Not your fault I can't remember jack! I will check with my husband.

Got a funny story. Jelly has been peeing and pooping in the house for the past month in spite of going outside regularly. He doesn't like going in the grass anymore and will just lay on the deck in the sun. I've had it. For the last several days, I've gotten my squirt gun and squirt just behind his fanny until he gets off the deck and into the grass. Yesterday, he went in the grass because he knew I wanted him to but laid down in the grass, so I squirted next to him and he got up. Kept squirting until he kept walking and peed. As soon as he did, I immediately put the squirt gun down. He has learned right quick! Now, I generally just have to show the squirt gun and he gets down from the deck and goes in the grass. He is very smart, but verrry stubborn. (Today, I opened the kitchen door to the garage to do something and he went out. He wouldn't come in because he knew I wanted him to. I checked on him after a couple minutes, and the stinker was laying on the floor in the garage, which he never does! I told him to come in, and he went behind the car. I ignored him and went in the kitchen and he came in after a minute. He loves the attention and to be independent. He's skulking right now in his bed because he stepped on Petey and Petey scolded him good.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Oh, I know, and I appreciate your information. Not your fault I can't remember jack! I will check with my husband.

Got a funny story. Jelly has been peeing and pooping in the house for the past month in spite of going outside regularly. He doesn't like going in the grass anymore and will just lay on the deck in the sun. I've had it. For the last several days, I've gotten my squirt gun and squirt just behind his fanny until he gets off the deck and into the grass. Yesterday, he went in the grass because he knew I wanted him to but laid down in the grass, so I squirted next to him and he got up. Kept squirting until he kept walking and peed. As soon as he did, I immediately put the squirt gun down. He has learned right quick! Now, I generally just have to show the squirt gun and he gets down from the deck and goes in the grass. He is very smart, but verrry stubborn. (Today, I opened the kitchen door to the garage to do something and he went out. He wouldn't come in because he knew I wanted him to. I checked on him after a couple minutes, and the stinker was laying on the floor in the garage, which he never does! I told him to come in, and he went behind the car. I ignored him and went in the kitchen and he came in after a minute. He loves the attention and to be independent. He's skulking right now in his bed because he stepped on Petey and Petey scolded him good.

No problem, I am always happy to help, especially for nutrition.
I know you appreciate it

That’s funny story, he has figured it out quick what you are asking him to do.
They are so smart! But also very stubborn.

Hopefully, he will continue to potty outside in the grass and NOT in your house

Are you still using treats to reward when he pees in the grass??

I have been watering my neighbors plants as they we’re away and Rusty and I have been going up there every night and even though his leash is on him, I drop the leash and he follows me, I go around the corner and I say Rusty come over here, and he does and he sits there and then lays down next to me, however he wants to be as far away from the hose as possible but while still being at my side, so cute! He is like my best friend and kind of my baby in ways(just like your dogs are), I love their personalities.
I can’t believe Jelly is 6 months already tomorrow.

Ohh I’m sure Jelly get bad that he stepped on Petey, especially when Petey says that hurt be careful kind of.

I know Rusty will be very mad at me tomorrow, cause he is nervous around new people and other dogs, apparently the specialist will examine him in the back then will discuss everything and what the plan is. But with this being a total new clinic and new vet, he will not be happy I don’t think!

Wish Rusty luck tomorrow morning

 

[Mavis]

He is like my best friend and kind of my baby in ways(just like your dogs are), I love their personalities.

I agree; they are the sweetest creatures and such a gift.

Thinking of you with Rusty. I hope his appointment goes well. I'm sure they will love him up and dote on him and he will have a positive visit. Fingers crossed for good news.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I agree; they are the sweetest creatures and such a gift.

Thinking of you with Rusty. I hope his appointment goes well. I'm sure they will love him up and dote on him and he will have a positive visit. Fingers crossed for good news.

Definitely, thank you for the good luck

I will update you after the appointment.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

I agree; they are the sweetest creatures and such a gift.

Thinking of you with Rusty. I hope his appointment goes well. I'm sure they will love him up and dote on him and he will have a positive visit. Fingers crossed for good news.

We just got back from neurologist appointment. He examined Rusty in the back and then came to chat with us.

He thinks it is Epilepsy/seizures that these episodes are, however, he also said Rusty has 2 spots in the middle of his back that are unusual but they are very common in Frenchies as no spine is normal in frenchies he said.
He checked how long it takes Rusty to fix his paw when he puts it upside down and this time it was his left back foot that was slow to being put back.
So that still exists, but he doesn’t think Rusty is in back pain, and does think it’s seizures. He can’t guarantee there is no other spine issues, and a MRI will tell us for sure.

So first we have to have a liver specific test done at our regular vet, that will rule out any liver issue as the cause for the seizures if it comes back good. Only issue is that he has to be fasted for 12 hrs before they can do the test which will be very hard for Rusty as he needs a snack before bed @10pm and breakfast @9am or he vomits foam from going too long without eating, but we will see how he does with that

Then after the liver test if all is good, MRI is next. That will rule out any cyst or brain tumour that can sometimes cause this(he said very unusual for that), but he will also check his spine to see if anything he didn’t see that would be unusual is there, if nothing is bad with his back, I will maintain with laser therapy treatment after the MRI(the laser therapy is not done at the specialist).

He wanted to put him on a seizure medication, i said I want to make sure his back is fine, and it’s for sure seizures that don’t have a cause to it(I am NOT giving him any medications unless absolutely needed as they damage the liver and kidneys causing them to fail and really shortens the dogs life).

If there is no known caused for the seizures, it’s considered epilepsy, he figures Rusty will have more episodes and the episodes will last longer , hopefully he doesn’t have anymore episodes anytime soon!
Epilepsy is very common in dogs between 2-5 years of age , however, it’s not very common with the scream, but it’s something that does happen.


My regular vet also said last time she examined Rusty and thought it was a seizure, she said I do NOT want to put Rusty on any seizure medications as that does more harm than good, unless it’s really necessary and his episodes are really long and very frequent, no meds she said(she did say too its too hard on the organs).
Some dogs can go years without having a seizure, we are hoping for at least a few months in between episodes, ideally there is around 6 months or years between each episode, then they dont need meds.

Also the neurologist said there is only a 50% chance of any meds being effective anyway and if they are effective they only lower the episodes by 40-50% which doesn’t guarantee no more episodes, so that’s super risky to consider any medications even if there is no known cause.

Here are a few photos I took while waiting to see the Dr. We were there for 2 hrs(1 hr was waiting to see the dr.), they put us in a room with a couch, while waiting for the dr, Rusty wanted me to put him on the couch beside me, he stayed like that most of the time the bottom photo is him Waiting to leave the clinic when we first got there, lol.

 

[Mavis]

We just got back from neurologist appointment. He examined Rusty in the back and then came to chat with us.

He thinks it is Epilepsy/seizures that these episodes are, however, he also said Rusty has 2 spots in the middle of his back that are unusual but they are very common in Frenchies as no spine is normal in frenchies he said.
He checked how long it takes Rusty to fix his paw when he puts it upside down and this time it was his left back foot that was slow to being put back.
So that still exists, but he doesn’t think Rusty is in back pain, and does think it’s seizures. He can’t guarantee there is no other spine issues, and a MRI will tell us for sure.

So first we have to have a liver specific test done at our regular vet, that will rule out any liver issue as the cause for the seizures if it comes back good. Only issue is that he has to be fasted for 12 hrs before they can do the test which will be very hard for Rusty as he needs a snack before bed @10pm and breakfast @9am or he vomits foam from going too long without eating, but we will see how he does with that

Then after the liver test if all is good, MRI is next. That will rule out any cyst or brain tumour that can sometimes cause this(he said very unusual for that), but he will also check his spine to see if anything he didn’t see that would be unusual is there, if nothing is bad with his back, I will maintain with laser therapy treatment after the MRI(the laser therapy is not done at the specialist).

He wanted to put him on a seizure medication, i said I want to make sure his back is fine, and it’s for sure seizures that don’t have a cause to it(I am NOT giving him any medications unless absolutely needed as they damage the liver and kidneys causing them to fail and really shortens the dogs life).

If there is no known caused for the seizures, it’s considered epilepsy, he figures Rusty will have more episodes and the episodes will last longer , hopefully he doesn’t have anymore episodes anytime soon!
Epilepsy is very common in dogs between 2-5 years of age , however, it’s not very common with the scream, but it’s something that does happen.


My regular vet also said last time she examined Rusty and thought it was a seizure, she said I do NOT want to put Rusty on any seizure medications as that does more harm than good, unless it’s really necessary and his episodes are really long and very frequent, no meds she said(she did say too its too hard on the organs).
Some dogs can go years without having a seizure, we are hoping for at least a few months in between episodes, ideally there is around 6 months or years between each episode, then they dont need meds.

Also the neurologist said there is only a 50% chance of any meds being effective anyway and if they are effective they only lower the episodes by 40-50% which doesn’t guarantee no more episodes, so that’s super risky to consider any medications even if there is no known cause.

Here are a few photos I took while waiting to see the Dr. We were there for 2 hrs(1 hr was waiting to see the dr.), they put us in a room with a couch, while waiting for the dr, Rusty wanted me to put him on the couch beside me, he stayed like that most of the time the bottom photo is him Waiting to leave the clinic when we first got there, lol.

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OMG, what an angel. He is a little potato in that first picture.

Well, sounds like you got some answers and it's not all bad. If the meds are only 50% effective, I agree about taking a wait and see attitude. Hopefully, any future episodes will be infrequent and short. Good luck with the blood test. I have a feeling his results will come back clear as will the MRI. Here's hoping. I hope you feel some sense of relief already.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

OMG, what an angel. He is a little potato in that first picture.

Well, sounds like you got some answers and it's not all bad. If the meds are only 50% effective, I agree about taking a wait and see attitude. Hopefully, any future episodes will be infrequent and short. Good luck with the blood test. I have a feeling his results will come back clear as will the MRI. Here's hoping. I hope you feel some sense of relief already.

Oh yes, that was so cute when he looked at me and put his paws on the couch, please pick me up so I can lay on the couch!

The neurologist said the more shorter the back the more issues. Maybe because jelly is longer you won’t have to worry about back issues.

Well when the blood test is done and clear, the MRI gets done and there is no cause and it’s clear and shows no back issues and no cause, It will be a relief. Because he said he has a couple spots that aren’t great but aren’t bad on his back, I really want to confirm no other spine issues and everything is clear before there is relief.
Since it is seizures, I need to know there so no cause.

However, there kind of is a problem, the shampoo we have to bath Rusty with for his allergies on the skin, it’s a medicated from the vet, it has ingredients in it that are neurotoxins, so I have to find alternative that works just as good.

Most natural shampoos use rosemary extract as a preservative, which is really good, no chemicals or anything bad or neurotoxins but the rosemary extract should never be used around or on dogs with seizures for some reason, Im not sure why.
All the paw balms and snout butter and any other shampoo uses rosemary extract which is actually good, but not for dogs with seizures. I don’t know what else to use for the snout and what to bath him with.
All the other snout butters make his nose go lighter.

Oh and funny thing, I said we are all worried about his back and when he does the MRI he said if it’s puts your mind at ease I will do the MRI on his back not just his head.
My mom and I both went to the appointment cause it was a long drive, we said we are the only ones that pick up Rusty up as dad is scared he will hurt Rusty’s back and doesn’t pick him up and Rusty doesn’t understand why.
The Neurologist said you tell your dad to continue picking up Rusty, his back is not bad enough for you guys to not pick him up, please continue to do what you normally do with him just no stairs or jumping off or on furniture.

That was good, I told dad the dr said to continue picking up Rusty, he hasn’t picked him up yet but I’m sure he will LOL!

Thank you for the good luck wishes and support on here, it’s much appreciated by both me and Rusty!

 

[Mavis]

I said we are all worried about his back and when he does the MRI he said if it’s puts your mind at ease I will do the MRI on his back not just his head.

Fabulous!

The Neurologist said you tell your dad to continue picking up Rusty, his back is not bad enough for you guys to not pick him up, please continue to do what you normally do with him just no stairs or jumping off or on furniture.

Awww; I am so glad to hear that! Your dad and Rusty will be so happy! Best news ever.

 

[Rusty’s Owner]

Fabulous!


Awww; I am so glad to hear that! Your dad and Rusty will be so happy! Best news ever.

Definitely, dad still doesn’t want to pick him up, but I’m sure he will eventually.

He said we have to pick him up a certain way to support his back end.

At least he doesn’t think it’s anything serious right now and thankfully the MRI will confirm everything so we know exactly what is going on and if anything is causing this.